Re: Brett Finch!! : Tue May 22, 2012 7:47 pm  

SomersetSaint wrote:

McGuire did it at the goons, with a weaker squad than saints,

Ahhh the old myth about Maguire turning a bunch of no hopers in to world beater again. He took over a squad of underperforming players and turned them in to champions but it was by no means a weak squad. It certainly had more talent then the current Saints squad has.

Brown will need to sign players for 2013 if he's to challenge for trophies straight away and doesn't want to put up with a rebuilding year.

Re: Brett Finch!! : Tue May 22, 2012 7:52 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

It certainly had more talent then the current Saints squad has.

Re: Brett Finch!! : Tue May 22, 2012 8:02 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

:lol:

Don't get it.

Comfortably better.

Do Saints have a player like Sam Tomkins? No

Do you have a winger like Richards? no

Centres like Gleeson and Carmont? no

A halfback as good as Leuluai? no

props as efficient as Coley and Fielden? No

Theres a sprinkling of potentially good players mixed in with a world class 'one' at Saints in James Roby and then after that theres some very average players and a few money pinching Australians. There's room for improvement at Saints but could Nathan Brown get the current squad to top the league and win the grand final in 2013? If you answer that hand on heart you surely must say no.

Re: Brett Finch!! : Tue May 22, 2012 8:08 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

Don't get it.

Comfortably better.

Do Saints have a player like Sam Tomkins? No

Do you have a winger like Richards? no

Centres like Gleeson and Carmont? no

A halfback as good as Leuluai? no

props as efficient as Coley and Fielden? No

Theres a sprinkling of potentially good players mixed in with a world class 'one' at Saints in James Roby and then after that theres some very average players and a few money pinching Australians. There's room for improvement at Saints but could Nathan Brown get the current squad to top the league and win the grand final in 2013? If you answer that hand on heart you surely must say no.

Hand on heart - yes!

If Michael McGuire can get a bunch of players that struggle to make the playoffs year in year out to win a grand final and challenge cup then I'm sure it's possible brown can do it at saints.

Re: Brett Finch!! : Tue May 22, 2012 8:19 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

Don't get it.

Comfortably better.

Do Saints have a player like Sam Tomkins? No

Do you have a winger like Richards? no

Centres like Gleeson and Carmont? no

A halfback as good as Leuluai? no

props as efficient as Coley and Fielden? No

Theres a sprinkling of potentially good players mixed in with a world class 'one' at Saints in James Roby and then after that theres some very average players and a few money pinching Australians. There's room for improvement at Saints but could Nathan Brown get the current squad to top the league and win the grand final in 2013? If you answer that hand on heart you surely must say no.

So far this poor Saints team has made 6 grand finals, it should not take too much to push them that bit further. The big problem for Brown is halfback. Other than that he has a pack that can make yards and tackle teams into their own half. He will get some movement in the backline regardless of how good they are, 3 players due to retire, 1 looking to move on.

Re: Brett Finch!! : Tue May 22, 2012 8:26 pm  

St pete wrote:

Hand on heart - yes!

If Michael McGuire can get a bunch of players that struggle to make the playoffs year in year out to win a grand final and challenge cup then I'm sure it's possible brown can do it at saints.

Struggle to make the play offs?

We'd lost semi final after semi final under Noble before Maguire took over. I'm not knocking what Maguire did for us and what his legacy continues to achieve but he had good tools to work with. He had a set of players that had underperformed but he was lucky in the respect that his best players were either in their prime or coming up to it and he had a bunch of brilliant juniors.

Browns got plenty to work with don't get me wrong but there isn't a cat in hells chance of him turning this current bunch in to league leaders and grand final winners however good he may be. I hope the Saints board believe he can and neglect to sign anybody but I can't see them lacking that much sense and Brown will know where he needs to strengthen.

Saints are 2 or 3 players away from being a trophy winning side and that would be the same even if you had Wayne Bennett in charge.

Re: Brett Finch!! : Tue May 22, 2012 8:33 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

So far this poor Saints team has made 6 grand finals, it should not take too much to push them that bit further. The big problem for Brown is halfback. Other than that he has a pack that can make yards and tackle teams into their own half. He will get some movement in the backline regardless of how good they are, 3 players due to retire, 1 looking to move on.

The thing is though this 'current' Saints side hasn't reached 6 grand final, it's reached zero!

The Saints side of 6 years ago was a fantastic side with supreme players and if Brown had those players to work with he'd pi*s you a trophy but he hasn't. He's got no Long, no Graham, no Sculthorpe, no Cunningham, no Lyon, no Pryce but it has got a nearly retired Wellens, weak centres, a stand off who's really a fullback or back up hooker and a pack of forwards that seems to shy away when the bullets are flying.

I'm not trolling here these are just honest opinions. I admire Saints and i've had to sit through years of watching Saints sides picking up trophies with groups of fantastic players but at the minute your side needs a lot of work. There needs to be an element of patience in bringing through the youth but you also need to be more selective in the players that you sign.

Re: Brett Finch!! : Tue May 22, 2012 8:59 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

It certainly had more talent then the current Saints squad has.

Utter, utter, utter laughable, one-eyed b******s of the highest order...

Re: Brett Finch!! : Tue May 22, 2012 9:04 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

The thing is though this 'current' Saints side hasn't reached 6 grand final, it's reached zero!

The Saints side of 6 years ago was a fantastic side with supreme players and if Brown had those players to work with he'd pi*s you a trophy but he hasn't. He's got no Long, no Graham, no Sculthorpe, no Cunningham, no Lyon, no Pryce but it has got a nearly retired Wellens, weak centres, a stand off who's really a fullback or back up hooker and a pack of forwards that seems to shy away when the bullets are flying.

I'm not trolling here these are just honest opinions. I admire Saints and i've had to sit through years of watching Saints sides picking up trophies with groups of fantastic players but at the minute your side needs a lot of work. There needs to be an element of patience in bringing through the youth but you also need to be more selective in the players that you sign.

1 Cameron Phelps
2 Amos Roberts
3 Martin Gleeson
4 George Carmont
5 Pat Richards
6 Sam Tomkins
7 Thomas Leuluai
8 Stuart Fielden
9 Mark Riddell
14 Paul Prescott
11 Harrison Hansen
12 Joel Tomkins
13 Sean O'Loughlin
-
10 Andy Coley
17 Iafeta Paleaaesina
19 Paul Deacon
23 Lee Mossop


That was the lineup for MM first game. That team would beat Saints now comfortably IMO. As NickyKiss has said, we reached semifinal after semifinal with that side.

Difference for you is that (despite reaching all the GFs) you've lost massive player after massive player for the last 3-4 years. Gidley, Pryce, Long and Graham were 4 of your 5 best players and the simple fact of that matter is that, as of yet, you haven't replaced a single one of them.

Re: Brett Finch!! : Tue May 22, 2012 9:15 pm  

inside_man wrote:

1 Cameron Phelps
2 Amos Roberts
3 Martin Gleeson
4 George Carmont
5 Pat Richards
6 Sam Tomkins
7 Thomas Leuluai
8 Stuart Fielden
9 Mark Riddell
14 Paul Prescott
11 Harrison Hansen
12 Joel Tomkins
13 Sean O'Loughlin
-
10 Andy Coley
17 Iafeta Paleaaesina
19 Paul Deacon
23 Lee Mossop


That was the lineup for MM first game. That team would beat Saints now comfortably IMO. As NickyKiss has said, we reached semifinal after semifinal with that side.

Difference for you is that (despite reaching all the GFs) you've lost massive player after massive player for the last 3-4 years. Gidley, Pryce, Long and Graham were 4 of your 5 best players and the simple fact of that matter is that, as of yet, you haven't replaced a single one of them.

Yes - most of those backs would indeed make the side ahead of most of our backs at the moment, but only O'Loughlin and maybe Tomkins would get near our current pack from that lot when everyone's fully on form. The original statement stands as supreme cobblers.