Re: Saints squad for cas : Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:45 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

Hohaia will do ok. But we've got to give him some kind of protection. It's simply ridiculous to expect him to control the game when the entire defence is bearing down on him in the full knowledge there is no other attacking pivot.

Hohaia isn't a hallback. He looks okay with Lomax doing everything bar the kicking, because he's not doing anything particularly challenging if the pack is on top, which it has been. He was useless against Wigan because he had more responsibility and it's a shame Lee Gaskell isn't fit.

Saints just need to keep it ultra simple against Cas and you can negate the need for genuine halfbacks. The pack needs to work it's socks off and get us on top. Roby can dominate from dummy half and we can threaten with a very narrow attack like we did in the first half against against Leeds a few weeks ago.

Re: Saints squad for cas : Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:23 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

Hohaia isn't a hallback. He looks okay with Lomax doing everything bar the kicking, because he's not doing anything particularly challenging if the pack is on top, which it has been. He was useless against Wigan because he had more responsibility and it's a shame Lee Gaskell isn't fit.

Saints just need to keep it ultra simple against Cas and you can negate the need for genuine halfbacks. The pack needs to work it's socks off and get us on top. Roby can dominate from dummy half and we can threaten with a very narrow attack like we did in the first half against against Leeds a few weeks ago.

But he will have another pivot on monday with Wheeler. It may not be the ideal pivot but it's better than no pivot, which is what he had on Friday. He may not be a genuine halfback, but neither is brown at Huddersfield yet he was tipped for the England squad at one point at Halfback.

It's less about the position you played in the academy and more about what you bring to your role. Lance brought some control to our halfback play and a decent kicking game. The control is what we had been missing from our half backs. However with Lomax out he had to do everything and only a half like long can do such a thing on his own and even he could not do it against the best teams.

I think in four games time our season will look much improved.

Re: Saints squad for cas : Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:18 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Hohaia isn't a hallback. He looks okay with Lomax doing everything bar the kicking, because he's not doing anything particularly challenging if the pack is on top, which it has been. He was useless against Wigan because he had more responsibility and it's a shame Lee Gaskell isn't fit.

When Hohaia has had support he has been anything but useless. Yes, he's made some mistakes. But I put them mostly down to unfamiliarity with the role and the strengths and weaknesses of his team-mates in addition to an over-eagerness to do well.

Once he settles down with a regular and capable partner at scrum half he'll do fine.

Against Wigan, who defended as well as any side I've seen in SL this season, he was no different to Leon Pryce when he was the only attacking option Saints possessed. When Pryce had a fit Sean Long and/or Sculthorpe partnering him he was practically unstoppable. As Saints only pivot he was very quickly targeted by opposing teams and neutralised. I'd also add that Pryce was nowhere near as rounded in terms of skill as Hohaia. Pryce's kicking was almost always ineffective and passing to his wrong side was very often a lottery.

Re: Saints squad for cas : Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:31 am  

Mugwump wrote:

When Hohaia has had support he has been anything but useless. Yes, he's made some mistakes. But I put them mostly down to unfamiliarity with the role and the strengths and weaknesses of his team-mates in addition to an over-eagerness to do well.

Once he settles down with a regular and capable partner at scrum half he'll do fine.

Against Wigan, who defended as well as any side I've seen in SL this season, he was no different to Leon Pryce when he was the only attacking option Saints possessed. When Pryce had a fit Sean Long and/or Sculthorpe partnering him he was practically unstoppable. As Saints only pivot he was very quickly targeted by opposing teams and neutralised. I'd also add that Pryce was nowhere near as rounded in terms of skill as Hohaia. Pryce's kicking was almost always ineffective and passing to his wrong side was very often a lottery.

I agree with you on this. I was one of the first to deride Lance. I have no problem saying that, when he first played he was at FB and seamed to do alot of running but in no particular direction with no real effect.

Since slotting into halfback, he has had a more controlled game and seamed to know what his role was there and fitted into the team better and to be fair to him had a pretty decent kicking game against Leeds. He did less of the running game and more of the directing from what I saw.

This I liked because it was this that we lacked under Gaskell and Lomax, I've not seen the Wigan game, but I would assume in that game he was having to direct, run, kick and make space for other people on his own. Just as youngsters cannot be expected to organise a team, one half back cannot be expected to do the whole show and be effective against 2 very experienced halves in Finch and Lululie.

Re: Saints squad for cas : Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:05 am  

Mugwump wrote:

When Hohaia has had support he has been anything but useless. Yes, he's made some mistakes. But I put them mostly down to unfamiliarity with the role and the strengths and weaknesses of his team-mates in addition to an over-eagerness to do well.

Once he settles down with a regular and capable partner at scrum half he'll do fine.

Against Wigan, who defended as well as any side I've seen in SL this season, he was no different to Leon Pryce when he was the only attacking option Saints possessed. When Pryce had a fit Sean Long and/or Sculthorpe partnering him he was practically unstoppable. As Saints only pivot he was very quickly targeted by opposing teams and neutralised. I'd also add that Pryce was nowhere near as rounded in terms of skill as Hohaia. Pryce's kicking was almost always ineffective and passing to his wrong side was very often a lottery.

I totally agree with saddened, lance hohaia isnt a halfback and never will be. I'm one of the very few who didn't jiz their pants and get carried away because of one good game against Leeds.

I think lance is a ok player and a decent signing but not for the postion he's playing at saints.

As saddened said, he does ok if our pack gets on top but he's pretty useles if they ain't and hasn't got the ability to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and change it like a good halfback should.

His kicking game IMO is totally and utterly shocking (apart from Leeds game) and I'm yet to see him control a game.

Good halfbacks control the game, direct the team, organise teams, change games and I don't think lance or lomax can do that and that's the main reason we lie 8th in the table and have a totally shocking home record at our brand new Langtree park.

Before people start to tell me just how good lomax and lance are, I agree they are good players, lomax can be exceptional but none at the moment can do the job we are in need of.

Re: Saints squad for cas : Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:29 am  

saint at wire wrote:

You are having a josh aren't you?
Wello at 7? No Wheeler?

That is what I had heard was the team and not what I would pick. I'd have Wheeler at 6 and Lance at 7.

Re: Saints squad for cas : Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:23 am  

No predictions for the result, I'm sure it is one game that Ian will have Castleford well hyped up for.

Re: Saints squad for cas : Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:53 pm  

TheVee wrote:

That is what I had heard was the team and not what I would pick. I'd have Wheeler at 6 and Lance at 7.

Like I said, Im always gold the right team

No way was wello going to picked at 7 with swiftly at fullback.

Re: Saints squad for cas : Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:48 pm  

Like I said, Im always gold the right team

No way was wello going to picked at 7 with swiftly at fullback.[/quote]

I heard it Saturday morning as Wheeler wasn't expected to play so obviously changed by the time you got the team. Seems like we were too desperate and rushed him back.

Re: Saints squad for cas : Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:52 pm  

TheVee wrote:

Like I said, Im always gold the right team

No way was wello going to picked at 7 with swiftly at fullback.

I heard it Saturday morning as Wheeler wasn't expected to play so obviously changed by the time you got the team. Seems like we were too desperate and rushed him back.[/quote]

I was told the team Saturday when the players was told. Swiftly was never in it, he was 18th man.

Just been told jonny lomax is 50/50 to play next Saturday at Widnes.