Re: Lessons for 2012 : Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:08 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

I'm not blaming yeterdays loss on the injuries, we came up short by 6 points to the top team in the competition. Some on here will say use terms like an average side, or a team that needs 5 or 6 players.

This actually shows how out of touch as fans we have got from what it means to be lower down the league than the top 2.

If you think this team is average, then actually we should be 7th. Look to 7 and 8 and you will see an average team. People throw around terms like average, without actually thinking of the meaning. What they mean is that we are not the top side in the comp and anything less than the top side they rate as average or less. This is hugely OTT in my opinion, but that's what forums are for, opinions.

From what I saw yesterday there were 2 defensive sides on top for most of the game. With Wigan having that little bit extra than Saints at crucial points. ie Charnley and Tomkins, but both could have been stopped.

As for replacing the centres, what we are saying here is that we have a top 2 english centre and a top 2 exiles centre (meli would have been centre apart from King having to give up his wing spot), which is not good enough. Therefore we can only top this by either signing Carmont or an Aussie as everyone else would be below Meli and Shenton.

I can understand the call for a prop,

All year I've heard calls for we need Leon back, to only a week ago, telling the board we must sign Leon, to the very same people saying he went missing yesterday. Lets be thankful the board are not so short term, otherwise we would be hiring and firing on a week by week basis. We were good, yesterday ,but not good enough.

We where a vast improvement on the GF from last year, and an improvement on MM and the wigan game after the exiles. I would say we where not as good as at the DW. But this is far from an average team and there are still enough games left to mount a challenge for the playoffs.

The rest week of the CC final will do Graham the world of good, last week he could not run and at half time this week he could not even see. Leon was 3 games back. These are not excuses for the loss but reasons why we may yet improve further this year in the final 4 games.

It's always depressive to lose to Wigan, but lets not go OTT we are off the pace, but hardly and in summountable position to pull back this year, never mind next year.

Royce after the game made some excuses with the injuries and that's the first time this year he has done that IMO. But afterwards I was thinking about it and was that speach more for him or for the team, so that they don't get into a mentality that Wigan can't be beat. More just we got them at the wrong time for us and we still can beat them. It's impossible to know a mans mind, but he does not often draw attention to the injuries.

Great post

Re: Lessons for 2012 : Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:11 pm  

St pete wrote:

I think Royce has used the injuries as a excuse to many times this year. Abd I also think he's ott after the game when he's talking about injuries.

He has mentioned them a handful of times and it is right that he did. They have been massive and it's been blatantly obvious to everyone. Jammer and Robes were playing with serious injuries and their courage should be mentioned; as should the courage of other players who were not fit but who put up their hands to play. I think that speaks to our character as a team and it is THAT which he referred to in his post match interview - our courage.

Re: Lessons for 2012 : Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:14 pm  

Paul Youane wrote:

Who will have the "kicking game" for Saints next year.

Yesterday your kicking game was terrible.

Our long kicking game was, bar one from Pryce. But Wilkin's grubbers earned us three dropouts, which I wouldn't call terrible.

Re: Lessons for 2012 : Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:15 pm  

To be fair, until the 2nd half the kicking game for Saints was pretty irrelevant, we made the hard yards up field well and Wigans kicks all went to hand starting us on the 20 or 30 or 40 m lines.

We put up a few shocking bombs, but really both of wigans first 2 tries where from deep so a good kicking game would not have really impacted territory wise as we had territory and possesion in spades.

As I had only returned from hols on sat I was watching on TV and it was interesting to hear Milward saying we where too lateral. And after the game Royce said pretty much the same. Lomax was making the passes for Leon but basically everything went the same route, as when Lomax and Gaskell played. Part of bringing Leon back was to open up the other flank, not just do the same routine.

I don't think Leon is the messiah and the key player needed for next year, but neither do I think he is as woeful as has been suggested yesterday.

The question for me is does Lance bring a kicking game? We saw yesterday 4 wigan halfbacks all with kicking games.
At Saints we have runners of the ball and people who are creative with ball in hand, but our main kickers where on the bench and at loose.

I think we have the players, but balance is key. In the off season every single half back should be working on their kicking game. With the exception of Gaskell who needs to work on his defensive positioning. But no point having great half backs all doing the same job. Lomax or Lance or Leon, would be my options next year. But that has a provison on one of them having a kicking game. Otherwise Gaskell has to be fitted in somewhere, for some of the games where kicking will be vital.

I think the coach is better than most and he has moved a little on not playing 3 props from the start yesterday. But in such a key game, with Roby and Graham shot to pieces why did clough play so little and why not another forward? I understand he likes a back, but with it being sooo clear the forwards where a little underdone, why no other forward for this one game.

But hey ho I still reckon we'll shape up well against huddersfield.

Re: Lessons for 2012 : Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:20 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

I think the coach is better than most and he has moved a little on not playing 3 props from the start yesterday. But in such a key game, with Roby and Graham shot to pieces why did clough play so little and why not another forward?

I would imagine because our harassed coach was trying to figure out how to balance everything, including the management of returnees from long term injury of which he had two, one of whom was failing to have any positive impact on the game at all.

I feel dead sorry for Royce Simmons. He's had a miserable first season with us. I hope it is a gazillion times better in 2012. In all respects.

Re: Lessons for 2012 : Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:57 pm  

[quote="I feel dead sorry for Royce Simmons. He's had a miserable first season with us. I hope it is a gazillion times better in 2012. In all respects.[/quote]

He. Has had it tough and done really well considering. He also has us playing more entertaining rugby than last year too IMO

Re: Lessons for 2012 : Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:10 pm  

We have a team full of injuries but the coach leaves two players sat on the bench for most of the game, one who has played all season and done well partnering Lomax. Soliola was also benched for a large part of the game.

Re: Lessons for 2012 : Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:22 am  

roader wrote:

Soliola was also benched for a large part of the game.

Soliola was playing injured, as were so many of the team.

Give the coach a break. You try playing the toughest game of the year with up to eight players who have hardly trained through injury, with two on injections and serious injury, and two players coming back from long term injury in the same match, while also trying to win the bloody thing.

Jeez.

Re: Lessons for 2012 : Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:44 am  

Somebody like Hohaia at fullback would have made a huge difference yesterday. Not just kick returns but attacking the line at pace.

Sts fans tend to underestimate how well you compete without halfbacks/missing at least one regular as well - for some reason yours seem to get injured at key points in the season more than the other top sides, yet you do pretty well anyway. Speaks a lot for having a pretty good overall structure to your play IMO.

Re: Lessons for 2012 : Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:18 am  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

Somebody like Hohaia at fullback would have made a huge difference yesterday. Not just kick returns but attacking the line at pace.

Sts fans tend to underestimate how well you compete without halfbacks/missing at least one regular as well - for some reason yours seem to get injured at key points in the season more than the other top sides, yet you do pretty well anyway. Speaks a lot for having a pretty good overall structure to your play IMO.

Hohaia under the high bomb is a nightmare aka Meli x 5

Wrong decision putting him at fullback