[Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy]

Re: St Helens Licence Grade : Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:44 pm  

SaintsFan wrote: I quote (League Express citing the RFL criteria): Now, tell me, where in there does it say 2008, 2009 and 2010? The next licence is awarded from 2012 to 2014. 2011 is part of the first licence round, which began in 2009. Why would any season outside of this licence round be used to calculate whether a club is viable for the next licence round? We could go back decades if that were the case surely. You were saying? So you think they would use AVERAGE attendances from a season that isn't even finished. I suppose they didn't think anyone would be dumb enough to need it explaining to them and why it could cause potential problems. I'll give it a go and see if it finally hits home................... Lets says a club still has to play their local derby at home this season and are just under the 10,000 threshold. What do you think might happen if they weren't allowed to count their highest gate of the season when other clubs have? Lets say that determined whether they got a franchise or not - you getting it yet? Here's a link to help you understand the criteria You'll even notice that is uses 2008 for more than one thing because believe it or not this season isn't finished yet! I hope to God you're not trying to teach maths or logic.

SaintsFan wrote: I quote (League Express citing the RFL criteria): Now, tell me, where in there does it say 2008, 2009 and 2010? The next licence is awarded from 2012 to 2014. 2011 is part of the first licence round, which began in 2009. Why would any season outside of this licence round be used to calculate whether a club is viable for the next licence round? We could go back decades if that were the case surely. You were saying? So you think they would use AVERAGE attendances from a season that isn't even finished. I suppose they didn't think anyone would be dumb enough to need it explaining to them and why it could cause potential problems. I'll give it a go and see if it finally hits home................... Lets says a club still has to play their local derby at home this season and are just under the 10,000 threshold. What do you think might happen if they weren't allowed to count their highest gate of the season when other clubs have? Lets say that determined whether they got a franchise or not - you getting it yet? Here's a link to help you understand the criteria You'll even notice that is uses 2008 for more than one thing because believe it or not this season isn't finished yet! I hope to God you're not trying to teach maths or logic.

Re: St Helens Licence Grade : Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:56 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

I quote (League Express citing the RFL criteria):

Now, tell me, where in there does it say 2008, 2009 and 2010? The next licence is awarded from 2012 to 2014. 2011 is part of the first licence round, which began in 2009. Why would any season outside of this licence round be used to calculate whether a club is viable for the next licence round? We could go back decades if that were the case surely.

You were saying?

I think where you are falling down is that you quoting league express! Surely a teacher would be aware that many publications spout drivel, let alone LE!

Re: St Helens Licence Grade : Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:34 pm  

Wigan/Leeds Andy wrote:

Lenegan was always going having to restructure the club's finances after the way Mo and Whelan ran it, hence the £2m loan you mentioned earlier (which was actually a loan from Whelan). We were due to turn a profit last year according to Lenegan at a fans forum and are now on the way to being sustainable going forward.

I do not have the detail of St Helens financial so can't comment, you clearly don't know Wigan's so it's best not to speculate when you clearly don't know.

You have obviously forgotten that I was responding to Rougues taking the p*ss out of Saints finances on OUR forum when clearly wigans finances are no better and are equally dependant on the support of its owner.

I think I know how to read a set of accounts and company returns.
Why not speculate? Its a free world.

[Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy]

Re: St Helens Licence Grade : Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:40 pm  

saint at wire wrote:

You have obviously forgotten that I was responding to Rougues taking the p*ss out of Saints finances on OUR forum when clearly wigans finances are no better and are equally dependant on the support of its owner.

I think I know how to read a set of accounts and company returns.
Why not speculate? Its a free world.

Then why respond to my post with a load of stuff that had nothing to do with what I said? Maybe you should have said all that to Rouges?

If you know how to read a set of account you'll know to speculate based on incomplete info can mean you can get it completely wrong. As you have done.

Re: St Helens Licence Grade : Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:59 am  

Saint Simon wrote:

I think where you are falling down is that you quoting league express! Surely a teacher would be aware that many publications spout drivel, let alone LE!

League Express were quoting the RFL.

Re: St Helens Licence Grade : Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:02 am  

Wigan/Leeds Andy wrote:

Lets says a club still has to play their local derby at home this season and are just under the 10,000 threshold. What do you think might happen if they weren't allowed to count their highest gate of the season when other clubs have?

But that's the point, isn't it? What defines a Grade A club from the rest is that they don't have to rely upon occasional boosts from derby matches. They have the crowds in the bag automatically. Wigan and Leeds would get a minimum 10,000 every season without even trying. Saints most definitely would not. If we need to wait for our derby matches to get past the magical number then we aint a Grade A club, are we?

Re: St Helens Licence Grade : Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:44 am  

Saints Fan - sorry, but have to agree with Wigan / Leeds Andy here. The bids were submitted much earlier in the season, March time I think, when clubs would have had about 4 home games max. To base the season's average attendance on 4 out of 13 home games is ridiculous.

The stuff you quote from League Express states "the last 3 seasons". My reading of that (of course, it's open to interpretation) are the seasons 2008 - 2010. Those are the last 3 seasons - 2011 is the current, ongoing season.

A bit like the Championship clubs - they could only apply for a License based on a Grand Final appearance / Northern Rail cup win from the seasons 2008 - 2010 (the last 3 seasons). Leigh won the NRC this year, but couldn't apply for a license for 2012 - 2014.

What I think we all agree on is that when we move into the new stadium, as long as we return to at least KR crowd figures (and realistically, we should expect to exceed them), then we will be getting a A grade License next time.

Re: St Helens Licence Grade : Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:57 am  

It gets embarrassing at times the most petty arguments! St Helens got a Grade B and that was under the clearly defined rules, everyone was well aware of them and signed up to them.

Finances, can anyone tell me one club in Super League that could survive without the SKY TV money? no one could live on gate receipts alone. It is easy to knock Ian Lenagan at Wigan but did not Eamonn Macmanus when he bought the club really save it with his personal investment? I know David Hughes in London needs a very deep pocket to keep the club afloat, gone of the days of a butcher owning a rugby league club! I am sure Hull's new owner will put in much personal investment.

Re: St Helens Licence Grade : Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:07 am  

steve wrote:

You really are a nasty myopic little troll. Good effort to bring up a newspaper article that is nearly 12 months old BUT - the RFL criteria I have listed below and at no point is the fact that a club is losing money anything to do with anything.

Clubs that meet all of the A Grade criteria across these five areas have been be awarded an A Grade licence. For example, those clubs that have been awarded A Grade Licences have:

- Commercial income of at least £1m in each of 2009 and 2010.
- Average weekly home crowds of at least 10,000 in either the 2008, 2009 or 2010 seasons, and an average home crowd of at least 9,000 in the other 2 seasons.
- At least 5,000 season ticket holders in 2009 or 2010.
- A stadium with an operational capacity of at least 12,000, with at least 12,000 of the stadium capacity under cover and at least 5,000 seats (all of which are under cover and available for use).
- Audited turnover of at least £4m for the financial year ending in 2009 and unaudited turnover of at least £4m for the financial year ending in 2010.
- A Business Plan which includes budgeted profit and loss accounts and cash flow statements covering the four year period 01/01/2011 to 31/12/2014.
- All NI/PAYE/VAT payments up to date, with the exclusion of any ongoing investigation or recent extraordinary assessments.
- Achieved a top eight finish in any of the 2008, 2009 or 2010 Super League competitions.
- A four-year Player Development Strategy covering 2011 to 2014, with a clearly defined pathway from school to club to Service Area to Professional Club. The plan must stipulate budget and staffing structures.
- Demonstrated over the course of the 2009 or 2010 seasons that their community activity has engaged at least 10,000 individuals with the club.

In fact if it were, every club would be downgraded ,your beloved Wigin included if losing money was a criterion. All this has shown once again is that you spout opinions as fact. They are only a fact in your one eyed view of the world.

we made a profit last year didnt we?

Re: St Helens Licence Grade : Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:10 am  

We haven't got a fully functioning home ground, "B" grade is what I would have expected.

We'll walk an "A" next time round.