Re: Those damn Goons : Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:18 pm  

handrags wrote:

the reason wigan manage to form such a impenetrable defense is because they seem to be able to lie on in the tackle seconds longer than any other team would be allowed to do! this Allows them vital time to organise there defence line. every time hudds copied Wigans tactics they where penalised !

Watch and listen to last nights game again, don't listen to the crowd asking for a penalty, but listen to the ref shouting move. We don't move untill the ref shouts, as soon as he does, we start to. If there are 3 or 4 men in the tackle it does take longer for them to peel away than it would if there where one in the tackle. But putting three or four into each tackle drains energy, something we have improved dramatically under Bitcon (sp)

Re: Those damn Goons : Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:25 pm  

philipk wrote:

you can try and pick holes but you wont see a better " team" performance than the one from Wigan last night

the number of usual starters they had missing would have flattened most squads- their defence was of NRL proportions and Nathan Brown summed it up " we would have beaten most teams other than wigan tonight"- he's right Hudds werent too far off - prob dropped a bit too much ball but you could put that down to Wigans defensive strength.

It may not have been a real thriller but it was properly coached Rugby from Wigan and if you want competitive and intense competition we need more of that-

and Barring a mass of injuries For Wigan - 13 teams are battling for one place at OT

and one stat to bear in mind St George leaked an average of 12 per game last season in winning the NRL - Wigan are currently doing that number - defence does win games

Spot on.

Alot of people in this country seem to think a good defence doesn't count as part of being a top team. We defend for our lives and play at a huge intensity. We make it hard for other sides to play and they have to come up with some special plays to break us down.

If every other side in the league defended like Wigan or even Huddersfield for that matter we'd have a much better and exciting league. It would improve attacking standards across the board because players would have to improve their skills to break down these defences.

The game lags behind the NRL at the moment not in pace or strength but in doing the basics right. As a national side when we play the Australians we struggle to play at that intensity for 80mins because we don't have to do it in the league. We get sloppy and don't do the basics as well as the Australians because in Superleague you can get away with a few mis placed passes or lazy kick chases but you can't in the NRL because you'll get punished.

A great example of the challenge our national side faces came 2 weeks back when we went to Salford. We'd come off the back of a brusing encounter with St George the week before and didn't play anywhere near our best and went through the motions for long periods. The end result..........a 32-16 victory even after playing that way and that can't be right. If St George had gone home and played in the same manner they'd have been beaten soundly by any other side in the NRL. They didn't play like that because they knew that couldn't be enough and thats the difference.

Superleague just doesn't give our national players that week in week out challenge that the NRL gives it's players and due to that our players become sloppy and don't do the basics well enough.

Re: Those damn Goons : Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:29 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

And I prefer the Warrington version to the Wigan one. In Superleague terms, Wigan -v- Hudds was always going to be a snoozefest for me but I had hoped that Hudds would have been grown up about the matter and not behaved like rabbits in the headlights again. Alas, they still have a significant way to go in conquering their 'big game' nerves.

Wigan vs Huddersfield last night was played like an NRL game and players had to produce something special or hunt a mistake to claim a try. There was no walking through defences or just working an overlap with pure ease like happens in most games and the sheer physical nature of the contest was a joy to watch.

It's games like those that will improve our league and our national side not games between Cas and Salford that finish with 80 points in them.

Re: Those damn Goons : Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:40 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

Wigan vs Huddersfield last night was played like an NRL game and players had to produce something special or hunt a mistake to claim a try. There was no walking through defences or just working an overlap with pure ease like happens in most games and the sheer physical nature of the contest was a joy to watch.

It's games like those that will improve our league and our national side not games between Cas and Salford that finish with 80 points in them.

Cas would be above you if they won this weekend however, so not fair to slag them off really.

Re: Those damn Goons : Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:52 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

Cas would be above you if they won this weekend however, so not fair to slag them off really.

Aye a tad harsh on Cas as they've been very good so far but will they last the pace?

Not really slagging these sides off but pointing out facts. Take Salford and HKR last night or HKR and Crusaders last week. Both of those games were high scoring and whilst good to watch i'm sure they can't be going too far to improving those players skill levels with defences like that.

Re: Those damn Goons : Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:00 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

Wigan vs Huddersfield last night was played like an NRL game and players had to produce something special or hunt a mistake to claim a try.

There was no walking through defences or just working an overlap with pure ease like happens in most games and the sheer physical nature of the contest was a joy to watch.

It was bloody boring to watch! The only reason me and my mates continued to watch it was in the hope that Hudds would actually manage to finish off one of their many try-scoring opportunities. Ten minutes to go and we gave up!

It's games like those that will improve our league and our national side not games between Cas and Salford that finish with 80 points in them.

Bloody hell, if that's the way we are going then my watching of rugby league will soon end. Hopefully all the other teams will adopt Tony Smith style approach: great defence but open, attacking rugby league. Save our sport from three man pileys and rolling mauls!

Re: Those damn Goons : Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:25 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

:lol:

It was bloody boring to watch! The only reason me and my mates continued to watch it was in the hope that Hudds would actually manage to finish off one of their many try-scoring opportunities. Ten minutes to go and we gave up!

Bloody hell, if that's the way we are going then my watching of rugby league will soon end. Hopefully all the other teams will adopt Tony Smith style approach: great defence but open, attacking rugby league. Save our sport from three man pileys and rolling mauls!

so much moaning, and yet you'd give anything for your garbage team to be at that level

Re: Those damn Goons : Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:48 pm  

[quote="SaintsFan"]:lol:

Ten minutes to go and we gave up!

St Helens walk even while watching on the telly.

Re: Those damn Goons : Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:52 pm  

Bill Sonny wrote:

so much moaning, and yet you'd give anything for your garbage team to be at that level

I'd rather have my 'garbage team' than the goons any day of the week! We're a far better looking lot, for a start off.

Re: Those damn Goons : Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:00 pm  

St pete wrote:

Charnley will end up in the centre and looks alot more comfortable at super league level than wheeler does and don't forget wheeler has also played wing for saints.

Mossop, farral, Hanson and Joel Tomkins are top quality young forwards where dixon, ashurst, magennis and cough ain't in the same league.

IMO marsh had also looked more well adapted to super league than lomax. IMO lomax ain't progressed, he's still at the same level he was at the start of last year.

Just ask yourself and be honest which youd rather have at saints:

Lee mossop
Liam Farrell
Joel Tomkins
Harrison Hanson
Charnley
Marsh
Sam Tomkins

Or

Lomax
Wheeler
Eastmond
Dixon
Ashurst
Cough
Magennis
Gaskell

I know what I'd rather have.

It sounds like you've seen more of Charnley and Marsh than I have, but I'll tell you this, I'd take a fit Gary Wheeler in the centre infront of all but 2 other english centres (3 if Gleeson didn't have so many problems). You used the words comfortable, but Wheels has never had a problem slotting in and has never looked out of place at SL. "A fit Wheeler" is a bit of an oxymoron, but for arguments sake.....
Lomax will also have a good future (at least) in SL.

I mentioned the forwards like Farrell through Dixon, but its interesting to recall (i'm pretty sure) that there were quite a few detractors of Joel Tomkins in you go back a few years (when Wigan were poor and he was a similar age to the other forwards we mention), but look how different he looks now? And as for the "who would you rather have" question well, I know I'd rather have Graham, Perry, Puletua and LMS than Prescott, Coley, Lima and Fielden; but at the moment, I wouldn't be betting on Saints in a derby match.