Re: Sam Tomkins : Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:33 pm  

inside_man wrote:

Wigan fan mate.....

Sorry - re read your post. The "They've" part should have been a give away really

Re: Sam Tomkins : Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:34 pm  

Guerrier wrote:

Probably, but if McManus was sitting down planning for next season, surely your new coach would have had a say. After all, it'll be him who'll have to work with the players day in, day out.

True. But his contract was up this season so I would imagine there was pressure to make a decision about him, even though Saints didn't actually bother contacting him while he was out on loan.

Re: Sam Tomkins : Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:36 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

He's a player I've never really rated but I would say he would have been a better "keep" than Scott Moore.

I think Matty Smith would grow as a player if he just had some consistency in his first grade experience. Even in the few weeks he has been with us, he has been messed about, with Kyle out of the team then in it then out of it, so he wasn't able to build up any confidence going towards the Grand Final. It was a big ask for him to be the 7 in his first derby at his first grand final for a team who didn't actually want him. I'm well impressed by his courage in taking it on and he certainly showed us what he is capable of against Warrington. He was a joy to watch.

Re: Sam Tomkins : Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:03 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

He's a player I've never really rated but I would say he would have been a better "keep" than Scott Moore.

Can't see that at all. The reason why is between them Moore has a rugby brain and Smith doesn't in the same way that Tomkins has and Long hadn't at the same age. If Moore can get rid of his handling errors he will be a useful squad player. If he finds a bit more inside of himself he could even become a key player in the way that we're still waiting for Wilkin to do. A lot of it is about consistency with these good players whereas Smith may have a more consistent game it is only occasionally that it rises to grade B or above. That's not good enough level of performance for us to maintain our title challenges.

Re: Sam Tomkins : Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:14 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Huh?

Matty made such an impact because his kicking was fabulous against Warrington and our whole team that night played as one, something we haven't seen much of this season (and we haven't seen anything of a kicking game for years).

Matty Smith has only played at Superleague level consistently for one season: while at Salford. Prior to Saturday he had never played in a Saints-Wigan derby before and he had never played in a final before. That lad had a huge amount of pressure on him and he was never, ever going to meet the expectations created by his great game against Warrington. But even though his kicking in the first half was poor, he still worked hard in both defence and attack, he made the initial break for Dixon's try and he passed to Wilkin who, if he'd not dropped the ball, would have scored another try. He also kicked one great kick in the second half. But my own thoughts are that the occasion was just too much for him to handle with so little experience and such a genuine desire to work hard for his club, all the dumb changes made to the lineup by Potter complicating matters for him and everyone else.

However, it wasn't his fault we were beaten and I certainly wish he had been kept on by Saints.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's played very well since he came back. But I think his performances have been highlighted more than they would normally as you haven't had a fit Eastmond for quite a while.

Pryce is a different type of HB in that he's never going to control the game etc etc.

My point was that if you went from having a fully firing Eastmond to Matty Smith the week after then it would have been less of a noticable impact than going from Wilkin to Smith.

Would you rather have Eastmond, Lomax or Smith?

Re: Sam Tomkins : Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:53 am  

McClennan wrote:

Game winning performance from him yesterday. Last year I mentioned that I was hopeful that Lomax would come through in the full back position because that extra speed from there can make a big difference. It did last night with Tomkins who looked threatening every time he went wide because there was space for him. I'm hoping that he gets more game time in that position because as we've seen with Billy Slater over the past decade it is a winning approach to the game.

I'm not knocking Wellens because he is a club legend but that extra pace is essential in the post-Minichello era.

Just to emphasise the point, Tomkins rattled up twice as many metres as Wello with the ball in his hand. Pace at full back please Royce.

Re: Sam Tomkins : Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:35 am  

Tomkins is a world class player, hope he carries his club form into the 4 nations. He generally doesnt have one of his better games against us (WIRE)but none the less he is a phenomenal player. I think he is one of them players who could play in most positions and still shine.Going off the subject of Tomkins,Saints dont appear to have any problem with playing out of their skins when playing Wire, maybe Saints see it as their cup final?????

Re: Sam Tomkins : Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:46 am  

Alternatively, perhaps you make us look like we're playing out of our skins when we're really just average.

Re: Sam Tomkins : Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:02 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

Don't be daft. We controlled him when we won at your place. It just takes a few markers to do their job, which they didn't last night.

Pat Richards played full back when we won at Wigan.

edit - should read the whole thread

Re: Sam Tomkins : Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:07 am  

It was after that game at our place that Sam moved back to FB I think as Madge dropped Pryce all together and went with a Goulding STomkins Richards back 3 which he has stuck with ever since.

Sam has a rare quality what many players dont have, and its that acceleration of the mark - once he sees a gap it is usually very hard to stop him breaking the line. Our 2nd try on Saturday showed that he saw that gap he wanted to hit, rode the challenge of Lomax and then offloaded and creating a huge hole in your defence.

I hope he can do it for England, but I have a feeling he wont have the same effect as he doesnt have a world class back with him, with the likes of Robinson and Brown not good enough.

Saying that, he is the future of our team and long may that continue.