Re: Before waving the white flag and QUITTING... : Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:17 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Wide to West 2005?

Don't let Facts get in the way of his points, you will ruin his smug self importance!

Re: Before waving the white flag and QUITTING... : Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:27 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

Oh ... I think it's certainly A point. Care to list those injuries? Care to compare with this season's injuries. Take your time now.

Given that we are lying second in the table (by a SINGLE POINT) - with not just serious, long term-injuries - but injuries to key personnel - I really don't know what else you expect - aside from us being one position higher and on our way to the CCF.

If you're prepared to spit the dummy with the club in this position (whilst seriously handicapped by injury) I'd love to see your reaction if we were lying fifth or eighth.

Yes - well what you EXPECT and what happens in REALITY are two different things. Consider Saints in 2002 under Ian Millward. A championship year in which we lost five times.

At London we were absolutely mullered by 40 points to 4. At Bradford we lost 54 - 22. At Wigan we lost 8 - 22. We also lost at Murrayfield.

By YOUR STANDARDS, then, there's nothing to be happy about because "professionals [should] contest every game".

Let's look at Saints' in 2005. We we're blown away in our first game of the season at home to Bradford 10 - 32. We were blown away at home again, this time against Leeds 20 - 42. We were then smashed by no less than WAKEFIELD 34 - 16. We then lost to Wigan - 4 - 42.

Despite the above - we finished the season going "Wide to West" and beating Wigan in the final.

Let's now look at last season. We lost 14 - 33 at Wigan. We lost 41- 24 against Warrington. We lost 42 - NIL against Catalans. We lost 40 - 10 against Hull KR. We lost 12 - 39 against Warrington again.

And on and on and on ...

I guess you'd better tell Paul Sculthorpe, Tommy Martyn, Sean Long, Paul Newlove and a host of other Saints' greats that their achievements aren't up to your high standards, then.

Now then, where to start with the latest offering of Planet Zog.

Firstly, It's not the point you were relating to initially. You said Anderson's team were hammered in order to support your Rose tinted glasses argument. Fact is, simply, they weren't.

It's easy to talk about seasons in the past where we have been hammered and then gone on to win something. Hindsight is a great thing, at the time I wasn't happy about the teams failure to compete in aforementioned games and at present I'm not now, in a season in which we have won nothing as of yet.

In reality you can contest every game. Tell me? How many games have Leeds been blown away in this year? I think you'll find the answer is 0.

You have still failed to tell me where I have stated that I expect the team to win 1 or 2 trophies (Nicely Avoided) Or infact where I have "Spat the dummy about the team"

2005??? Nah too easy. You and facts don't fit too well do they?

As for the achievements. Again you miss the point. I haven't once questioned what they did. You ask any player at any level if they are happy about failing to compete in a match and you'll get the same answer, No.

Re: Before waving the white flag and QUITTING... : Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:01 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

Internet typo error - shock!

Yeah yeah, we believe you...and the bubbles used in spirit levels are really fish farts.

Re: Before waving the white flag and QUITTING... : Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:54 pm  

Now then muggles How's these x fighters getting on? Faulty sat nav? Out of petrol?

Re: Before waving the white flag and QUITTING... : Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:58 pm  

I'll wave the white flag, this season is over. And if they don't sign anyone else of significant quality, so is next season as well.

Today was absolutely woeful. The pack is looking very fatigued now and was out enthused by Catalans. The backs, halfbacks in particular were pathetic. Dawson shouldn't have a contract with us and we yet again concede the full length interception/mistake-created try.

Our tactics were perhaps even more disappointing than our execution. Two or three poor, lazy one out drives than a ridiculously poor kick down the fullback's throat is a mysterious way to get back into a game. The lack of ability to score points when they went a man down was pretty shocking. We need Wilkin back ASAP and I'd stick him at 7 and drop Walsh. Try to finish the season with a gracious exit at Leeds or Wigan in the semi finals.

Re: Before waving the white flag and QUITTING... : Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:55 am  

Saddened! wrote:

I'll wave the white flag, this season is over. And if they don't sign anyone else of significant quality, so is next season as well.

Today was absolutely woeful. The pack is looking very fatigued now and was out enthused by Catalans. The backs, halfbacks in particular were pathetic. Dawson shouldn't have a contract with us and we yet again concede the full length interception/mistake-created try.

Our tactics were perhaps even more disappointing than our execution. Two or three poor, lazy one out drives than a ridiculously poor kick down the fullback's throat is a mysterious way to get back into a game. The lack of ability to score points when they went a man down was pretty shocking. We need Wilkin back ASAP and I'd stick him at 7 and drop Walsh. Try to finish the season with a gracious exit at Leeds or Wigan in the semi finals.

The mad thing is, we could still win this daft competition. If we can finish in that top 4, we'll be 1 game from the final and last year proved that anything can happen there. Catalans tonked us 42-0 there last year and they somehow managed to turn the season around.

Are we deserving of being champions again? Are we heck. I agree with you mate.

Last year was incredible because we had so many injuries and Brown adapted our style to win games we had no right to win. This year was supposed to see us go back to playing some decent rugby. The idea was that we didn't have to grind out victories because we had the personnel (Burns, Walsh and co) to attack teams and express ourselves.

Burns and Walsh's attacking tactic...look like you're gonna take on the line but then throw the most predictable, boring inside ball to a runner who gets smashed by the opposition ZZZZzzzzz I'd rather read one of Mugwumps posts on here.

Sort it out Cunningham!!!!

Re: Before waving the white flag and QUITTING... : Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:57 am  

Twentyman wrote:

The mad thing is, we could still win this daft competition. If we can finish in that top 4, we'll be 1 game from the final and last year proved that anything can happen there. Catalans tonked us 42-0 there last year and they somehow managed to turn the season around.

Are we deserving of being champions again? Are we heck. I agree with you mate.

Last year was incredible because we had so many injuries and Brown adapted our style to win games we had no right to win. This year was supposed to see us go back to playing some decent rugby. The idea was that we didn't have to grind out victories because we had the personnel (Burns, Walsh and co) to attack teams and express ourselves.

Burns and Walsh's attacking tactic...look like you're gonna take on the line but then throw the most predictable, boring inside ball to a runner who gets smashed by the opposition ZZZZzzzzz I'd rather read one of Mugwumps posts on here.

Sort it out Cunningham!!!!

Those inside balls are the sort of thing thst was in the game in the 80s. The games moved on from thst now. Yes it can be effective as part of a play but just having walsh/burns slowly run across the line then a slow inside ball is not effective at all. In fact it looks amateurish.

Re: Before waving the white flag and QUITTING... : Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:20 am  

Saddened! wrote:

I'll wave the white flag, this season is over.

It isn't. It was around this time last year (possibly even later actually) when we lost at Hull and we looked far from a team that would get anywhere near Old Trafford at that point. It was the lightbulb moment where Brown changed our tactics and the players reacted and brought us home.

We are at that stage now. It is time for KC to adapt. People were wondering when KC would get his biggest test as a coach, well it is with us right now. He has alot of players out of form and he has to change our tactics to get better results.

I do agree with alot of what you say though especially in regards to the halves. At the moment they are both a joke. Travis Burns will escape some criticism under Walsh's horrific form but he is doing nothing to help Walsh out of this slump and has been a big disappointment this season. His kicking game has been hopeless, I can't recall him creating too much recently and he is really is offering nothing with regards to a running game. Burns and Walsh just don't lookto be gelling like Wilkin & Burns were. As for Walsh, well his performances are not even Super League level at the moment. There's no imagination, no creativity, no sharpness to his passing and the worst aspect is that he looks afraid to take on the line. The key to a good half back is running to the line to commit defenders and therefore putting your team mates into space with a pass. Our backline and back rowers are getting no decent service right now because Walsh is reluctant to do this. Wilkin may get some stick on here and Red Vee, but when he was playing you can guarantee he would take the game by the scruff of the neck and you can guarantee he would take the ball to the line. You can question his pass selection at times and some of his kicking but not his ability to take the game by the scruff of the neck. Look back to the Wigan game and the difference in our half back play is miles apart from where it is now. When Wilkin is back I would stick in the halves without question unless one of these two dramatically improves in the next few weeks with his injury.

We will also improve once Makinson, Turner and Vea come back in so it's not all lost yet but we've got some big improving to do to even compete with Leeds or Wigan.

Our next two games are winnable and if we do win them, table wise we'll still be in a good position, probably 2nd as Wigan play Leeds away next week which is a tough one.

Re: Before waving the white flag and QUITTING... : Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:26 am  

I can understand your disappointment over the last couple of weeks. But the fact remains you are still top 3, only 2 points off top spot. 4 of your remaining 6 games in the 8's are at home and I can not see you being outside the top 4. You lost to Cats at home, they can beat anyone over there. Your season is far from over, still 2 from Leeds Wigan and Saints in the GF for mine.

Re: Before waving the white flag and QUITTING... : Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:30 am  

Blobbynator wrote:

It isn't. It was around this time last year (possibly even later actually) when we lost at Hull and we looked far from a team that would get anywhere near Old Trafford at that point. It was the lightbulb moment where Brown changed our tactics and the players reacted and brought us home.

We are at that stage now. It is time for KC to adapt. People were wondering when KC would get his biggest test as a coach, well it is with us right now. He has alot of players out of form and he has to change our tactics to get better results.

I do agree with alot of what you say though especially in regards to the halves. At the moment they are both a joke. Travis Burns will escape some criticism under Walsh's horrific form but he is doing nothing to help Walsh out of this slump and has been a big disappointment this season. His kicking game has been hopeless, I can't recall him creating too much recently and he is really is offering nothing with regards to a running game. Burns and Walsh just don't lookto be gelling like Wilkin & Burns were. As for Walsh, well his performances are not even Super League level at the moment. There's no imagination, no creativity, no sharpness to his passing and the worst aspect is that he looks afraid to take on the line. The key to a good half back is running to the line to commit defenders and therefore putting your team mates into space with a pass. Our backline and back rowers are getting no decent service right now because Walsh is reluctant to do this. Wilkin may get some stick on here and Red Vee, but when he was playing you can guarantee he would take the game by the scruff of the neck and you can guarantee he would take the ball to the line. You can question his pass selection at times and some of his kicking but not his ability to take the game by the scruff of the neck. Look back to the Wigan game and the difference in our half back play is miles apart from where it is now. When Wilkin is back I would stick in the halves without question unless one of these two dramatically improves in the next few weeks with his injury.

We will also improve once Makinson, Turner and Vea come back in so it's not all lost yet but we've got some big improving to do to even compete with Leeds or Wigan.

Our next two games are winnable and if we do win them, table wise we'll still be in a good position, probably 2nd as Wigan play Leeds away next week which is a tough one.