Re: So when does this nuke drop in RL? : Sat May 02, 2015 4:56 am  

SomersetSaint wrote:

I think the Wane video may well end up getting Flower off the hook. The way that he sent out his players, means that the vicarious liability lies firmly with the club, and not the individual players, who were only doing what the club encouraged them to do.

You may well think that. However, throwing around terms such as vicarious liabilitry won't save your post from being anything other than mere opinion that is quite nonsensical in legal (or indeed any) terms.

By the way, in my opinion; based on some actual, though by no means expert (in this context); legal knowledge; Lance won't be getting anywhere near court against anyone - indeed I don't think he has any intention of doing so - which no doubt will be a disappointment to all the popcorn crunchers desperately trying to illustrate how it would be a fait accompli.

Re: So when does this nuke drop in RL? : Sat May 02, 2015 6:39 am  

I'm rather puzzled by Saints fans logic here. Repetitive injury doesn't lead to concussive injury in the same way. Effects, by LH own statement happened after he started playing again, thus theres a causality linkage being made purely on correlation. Where is the evidence to support this link?

Also, the NFL, Boxing and Football where the same injury exists haven't been sued into nothingness.

Re: So when does this nuke drop in RL? : Sat May 02, 2015 7:42 am  

The FoI Act applies only to public authorities defined in the Act; sports clubs and the RFL are not public authorities, so the Act does not apply.

The DPA does very much apply, however. Assuming the performance data are not anonymised each player has the right to access his own data through making a subject access request and then to do with those data what he will. The clubs have no way to prevent such access within the law, so any player minded to analyse his data to see if a case can be made can do just that.

Re: So when does this nuke drop in RL? : Sun May 03, 2015 9:21 am  

SomersetSaint wrote:

I think the Wane video may well end up getting Flower off the hook. The way that he sent out his players, means that the vicarious liability lies firmly with the club, and not the individual players, who were only doing what the club encouraged them to do.

I don't see that. Unless Wane or the Wigan club has specifically instructed him to carry out an on-field assault with intention it's going to be very hard for the club to be held liable i.e. telling players to be aggressive is within the rules of the game. If a player breaks that rule there may be repercussions for the club under RL rules but under civil or criminal law? I don't think there's much to go on without a direct instruction as evidence e.g. if a fight breaks out and somebody is killed in a melee I doubt a club would be held financially responsible for any compensation to the deceased's family.

goobervision wrote:

Also, the NFL, Boxing and Football where the same injury exists haven't been sued into nothingness.

Well, the NFL case is still in process so you can't say anything with conviction about what will happen there, although I suspect it will result in a big settlement rather than go to court. As for boxing, it's completely different. It is an accepted term and condition of the sport that being hit unconscious is a likely outcome for participants. Whilst that is partly true with RL, the sport has rules and regulations to prevent such attacks (intentional or not). The sport has to show a duty of care if it becomes aware of danger resulting from play (intentional or not). What that means for long-term accumulations of concussions I don't know but it is clearly different to boxing i.e. whilst there is a risk of concussion in RL it is not an accepted outcome of the normal process of playing the game.

Re: So when does this nuke drop in RL? : Sun May 03, 2015 11:24 am  

SomersetSaint wrote:

I think the Wane video may well end up getting Flower off the hook. The way that he sent out his players, means that the vicarious liability lies firmly with the club, and not the individual players, who were only doing what the club encouraged them to do.

I think it goes back a lot further than that, Wigan always seem to attract the "dark side"of the game to tip them over the line, if you remember Wigan signed the prop Smith knowing that he could,t get a gig in NRL because of his knees in the shoulder technique which resulted in lots of suspensions. So he pops over to the Wigan camp and sure enough puts young Stankevitch out of the game. They had a barren period in Superleague so up pops an Oz coach with a nasty side of tackling techniques to cause injury and took delight in putting up "car crash" pictures in the corridor of the training ground.
Then we have Wane with his anti anger management style which has most probably again contributed to a player having to retire from the game. The club encourage the "thugby" style, fortunately most clubs have not followed this philosophy to the same detail.

Re: So when does this nuke drop in RL? : Sun May 03, 2015 3:06 pm  

I think the terms we are looking for to describe Wigan are "The classlessness of desperation". That's what happened in the Grand Final.

Re: So when does this nuke drop in RL? : Mon May 04, 2015 10:42 am  

goobervision wrote:

I'm rather puzzled by Saints fans logic here. Repetitive injury doesn't lead to concussive injury in the same way. Effects, by LH own statement happened after he started playing again, thus theres a causality linkage being made purely on correlation. Where is the evidence to support this link?

Also, the NFL, Boxing and Football where the same injury exists haven't been sued into nothingness.

All these sports are aware of this problem to some lesser of greater degree and have repeatedly blocked, hampered, stalled further investigation and litigation.

However, the NFL is a special case in that solid post-mortem data has found a "back door" through the NFL information firewall and into the hands of scientists. From this data it has been possible to establish a clear and unequivocal link between practicing the sport and brain injury.

As things stand the NFL - as we know it - is seriously threatened by a wave of class action lawsuits the costs of which are dizzying.

Moreover, even though similarly comprehensive data isn't available in relation to football and boxing it is now no longer possible for both to continue stonewalling official investigations indefinitely. One only need think of fighters such as Ali and Evander Holyfield to know boxing - AS WE KNOW IT - is living on borrowed time. Insofar as football is concerned, there have already been small-scale studies linking heading the ball repeatedly to brain damage. FIFA can only play the role of King Canute for so long.

Re: So when does this nuke drop in RL? : Mon May 04, 2015 11:30 am  

Mugwump wrote:

All these sports are aware of this problem to some lesser of greater degree and have repeatedly blocked, hampered, stalled further investigation and litigation.

Insofar as football is concerned, there have already been small-scale studies linking heading the ball repeatedly to brain damage. FIFA can only play the role of King Canute for so long.

I think football is very insignificant compared to "proper contact" sports, competing with a high ball perhaps. Think we can all remember the old rain sodden laced leather ball, now that was a concern when your neck went numb when the technique was wrong.

Re: So when does this nuke drop in RL? : Mon May 04, 2015 11:36 am  

Judder Man wrote:

I think football is very insignificant compared to "proper contact" sports, competing with a high ball perhaps. Think we can all remember the old rain sodden laced leather ball, now that was a concern when your neck went numb when the technique was wrong.

Again - the NFL studies show it's less an issue of force than FREQUENCY.

Given the number of headers a footballer makes in his career I suspect this could be a massive issue.

: Mon May 04, 2015 2:59 pm  

All you have to do is look at the collisions of either sport and it doesn't take a genius to work out that the speed and force of the collisions will have some sort of effect. It's not like the nfl are hiding this fact from the players, they choose to play the game knowing the force of collisions.