Re: Salford stats : Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:56 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Yeah, they're in black and white but they don't speak to the impact or importance a player has in a game. Look at the stats for Luke Walsh. They are terrible. 13 tackles and 6 missed. Three errors. Next to no ground covered. What the stats don't say, for example, is that of the 13 tackles made two were absolute peaches of try savers with Evalds on the way to the line clear ahead. They don't say either that one of the errors was a failed interception which would have taken the game for us pretty much. Nor do the stats say what a crucial role Walsh played in organising the team, especially once we lost players to injury. They don't speak to the quality of his kicks in play. In spite of all the sentimental gush over Paul Wellens (who himself made 3 but missed 2 tackles), Luke Walsh was my MoM because without him we would have been headless chickens, especially once Wilkin had gone. Based on stats alone and on your adherence to them in spite of your obvious ignorance, you would claim Walsh was gash. And you would be making a real fool of yourself by doing so, although you're making a fool of yourself anyway.

Been the odd game have we? So your on your high horse again.


Read my post! I said stats can be misleading but some such as carries are there for all to see. I hope you don't post on any away game threads as you only attend home games


It doesn't take a rugby league genius to see that 8 carries for a prop when we are down to 14 players is great. I don't need to see the game to see that's pretty poor when we need to dig deep and lost Ant Walker very early.

Re: Salford stats : Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:04 pm  

St pete wrote:

Been the odd game have we? So your on your high horse again.

I'm never off my high horse. It's very comfortable up here.

Re: Salford stats : Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:08 pm  

St pete wrote:

It doesn't take a rugby league genius to see that 8 carries for a prop when we are down to 14 players is great. I don't need to see the game to see that's pretty poor when we need to dig deep and lost Ant Walker very early.

The flip side being, knowing his team are down to 14, means he's aware enough not over exerting himself on 2 or 3 extra carries, and becoming a liability, either in defence or long periods on the bench, and thus reverts into "steady Eddie" mode, makes the tackles when needed and doesn't let his side down - as opposed to making 15 runs and being a target in defence as he's missing every other tackle...

It's a very linear logic to assume down on men = more runs by everyone. It's like assuming a body builder works out all day, so can run a marathon ... Masoe isn't and won't ever be a long minute metre eater prop like graham, and when he's played like that, his stats will drop, like they did early on when he played, and like this week. He gets too focused on conservation and playing his role "within the team" as opposed the role he naturally plays. Let him have the fall back of a subs bench (and the realisation he has to play and not rely on the other senior props) and we get games like Huddersfield, which is a good basis for him to build on.

Re: Salford stats : Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:21 pm  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

The flip side being, knowing his team are down to 14, means he's aware enough not over exerting himself on 2 or 3 extra carries, and becoming a liability, either in defence or long periods on the bench, and thus reverts into "steady Eddie" mode, makes the tackles when needed and doesn't let his side down - as opposed to making 15 runs and being a target in defence as he's missing every other tackle...

Utter rubbish that!

You don't only take 8 drives when your down to 14 players. Why on earth would you save a player and ask him not to take the ball up when your in trenches? That's when players dig deep for each other and over exert themselves.

Worst excuse I've ever seen in my life.

Re: Salford stats : Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:24 pm  

St pete wrote:

Utter rubbish that!

You don't only take 8 drives when your down to 14 players. Why on earth would you save a player and ask him not to take the ball up when your in trenches? That's when players dig deep for each other and over exert themselves.

Worst excuse I've ever seen in my life.

Okay, let's suppose for a second he had doubled his count and taken it up 16 times, as opposed to 8. But his defensive stats take the hit for that and he misses 3 simple one on one tackles, all of which lead to tries. Final score 32-30.

I'd want him to work within the defensive line before the luxury of him taking the ball up... That's not an excuse, that's thinking about the team as a whole, how it operates, and how losing that much of the bench affects how different player play...

Re: Salford stats : Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:26 pm  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

Okay, let's suppose for a second he had doubled his count and taken it up 16 times, as opposed to 8. But his defensive stats take the hit for that and he misses 3 simple one on one tackles, all of which lead to tries. Final score 32-30.

I'd want him to work within the defensive line before the luxury of him taking the ball up... That's not an excuse, that's thinking about the team as a whole, how it operates, and how losing that much of the bench affects how different player play...

Why wouldn't we tell any of the other props to not do any work? Why just Mose?

Did they also tell him not to tackle as much as the other players?

Every forward who didn't get hurt and go off injured made more tackle?

Re: Salford stats : Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:30 pm  

St pete wrote:

Why wouldn't we tell any of the other props to not do any work? Why just Mose?

Did they also tell him not to tackle as much as the other players?

The other prop on the field is Richards, who isn't an impact prop, and much more like a long minute meter eater (at least from what I've seen so far) - who will, for many years to come hopefully, be playing 60 minutes a match, and thus can operate as he would before the bench issues arose.

Mose on the other hand is an impact prop, who might of otherwise had 3 spells on the bench to recharge and recover, before returning for said impact. That wasn't an option, hence his game had to change. I would bet you a lot, he'd of been asked to do a lot more defensive work if he'd of been out on his feet owing to him taking more ball up.

Re: Salford stats : Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:34 pm  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

The other prop on the field is Richards, who isn't an impact prop, and much more like a long minute meter eater (at least from what I've seen so far) - who will, for many years to come hopefully, be playing 60 minutes a match, and thus can operate as he would before the bench issues arose.

Mose on the other hand is an impact prop, who might of otherwise had 3 spells on the bench to recharge and recover, before returning for said impact. That wasn't an option, hence his game had to change. I would bet you a lot, he'd of been asked to do a lot more defensive work if he'd of been out on his feet owing to him taking more ball up.

Im constantly told he's not a impact prop tho?


So now he is a impact prop. What impact does he give us?


Wasn't a impact last week against hudds tho was he? Sure you was creaming over the big mins he put in.

Re: Salford stats : Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:38 pm  

I won't be convinced he's been a success this year as he's not, he's admitted it him self he's not been great. He also said he's still learning which I find weird in the fact he's 25, played in the NRL and played in World Cup for Samoa.

I'll give him time to settle (Walsh and Amor settled easy enough) but I'm pretty sure we've signed a pudding. I hope I'm wrong but I'm not holding my breath.

Re: Salford stats : Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:39 pm  

St pete wrote:

Im constantly told he's not a impact prop tho?


So now he is a impact prop. What impact does he give us?


Wasn't a impact last week against hudds tho was he? Sure you was creaming over the big mins he put in.

I don't think I said once he played big minutes vs Huddersfield - he played very well, and led our pack superbly (as the stats showed) but, he was subbed multiple times, and allowed to play his natural game.

He's about as much an impact prop as Alex walmsley is - given the two different opinions of Mose and Alex, their stats are pretty similar, yet no body complains about Alex's lack of impact.