Re: Brave but ultimately poor : Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:12 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

It's pretty hard to knock the players after that effort last night. A real gruelling game, a fantastic advert for Super League and the intensity of the play offs...Although the defense was good tonight, the attack wasn't good enough.

You know, I felt the same after the game. The amount of unforced errors we made were ridiculous. We were throwing interceptions and making daft errors, e.g. Turner messing up the PTB etc..

Wilkin's kicking game was superb and I think that was helping us a lot. I don't think we had the go-forward that we should have had and that was summed up by the amount of PTBs they had in our half - I've only watched the first half back on Sky and at HT it was something like 42-12 to them in terms of that stat. Probably because our props were fecked considering that Walmsley only had one stint and we had Wello taking up another spot.

Effort was bang on though and we really should have won the game after we dragged ourselves back level.

Defence was great, once again, and I think Brown should take a lot of credit for that. We really have improved A LOT as the season progressed. That was the reason it was only 4-0 at HT. If it wasn't as good as it was, considering the amount of possession and territory they had, we would have been completely out of the game.

Re: Brave but ultimately poor : Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:54 am  

Well, without reading everyone's replies, I think part of your reaction is correct, but my reasoning is focussed of slightly different areas.

There was no shortage of commitment on Friday. That's something that we haven't been able to say all year. I do feel like Brown has treated this year as an experiment and the vibe rubbed of on many of the players, who only got serious towards the end of the year.

Neither team played expansively on Friday, possibly due to the nature of the fixture, but we did defend very well - especially the large number of normally deadly high kicks to the wingers.
What Leeds have in Danny McgGuire (probably moreso than any other half back in the league IMO) is a player who looks up and plays what he sees. Our makeshift halfs are a way from doing this, and we do lack that killer play when we're on their line. Walsh should help fix this. Leeds seem to rush up out wide, which stunted our attack, but a smart playmaker should be able to turn this to our advantage (we've seen Watkins caught out a number of times this year using this defensive tactic).

Wilkin kicked for territory ably, but too often he was kicking for yards when on the return set, Sinfield was bombing our back three. This was because Leeds were generally making more yards than us - part of that will be because we still struggle to match the line speed of other big teams. We have since our previous coach took charge. This was compounded by our front rows - LMS played well, but TP looks spent, Laffranchi is generally ineffective, I assume Walmsley is not fully fit by the seemingly low minutes played and Clough got left on the bench until too late in the game (IMO). Our fresh front row set up next year should help.

Saddened questioned the inclusion of Paul Wellens and its got to the stage where we all surely agree. Another year for him would be a mistake for the club.
But worse than Wellens is Hohaia. Whilst he can look dangerous if he's got a sniff or is presented with a gap, he is a hopeless halfback. Any ball that goes through him is turned lateral and slowed right down. He needs to vacate the halfback shirt. He was also the victim of Leeds most successful tactic of having Ablett run at him.

Brown has come good towards the end of the season, but there's still a few worrying points - the inclusion of Wellens despite him being little use, leaving Clough out the game when our other front rows were not making an impact, lack of a strong attacking stucture (understandable perhaps, with out half back issues) the strong rumours of renewals for Boof and Gardner (they've gone quiet recently) and the whispers that Wilkin is definitely moving back to the back year despite us not having a new 6 and him not being as good as our other backrows.

Re: Brave but ultimately poor : Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:12 am  

Offside Monkey wrote:

Brown has come good towards the end of the season, but there's still a few worrying points - the inclusion of Wellens despite him being little use, leaving Clough out the game when our other front rows were not making an impact, lack of a strong attacking stucture (understandable perhaps, with out half back issues) the strong rumours of renewals for Boof and Gardner (they've gone quiet recently) and the whispers that Wilkin is definitely moving back to the back year despite us not having a new 6 and him not being as good as our other backrows.

And these are the important points for me, I for one would not be upset if we ran with Wilkin at 6 next to Walsh, he's a better halfback than lance for sure! And as said we have better back rowers , I also suspect that with the new props coming in that if boofs extension is confirmed, he'll be in the back row next year. Jones could go to centre, but that would mean putting Manu in the second row, not ideal for me. Out of manu, jones, Sia, boof, and flash who would put Wilkin in that back row?
As for Ade, surely the form of swift has finally put paid to his extension, would he get a game in front of swift or makinson? And Percival could easily cover injuries there.
And then there's Wello. He literally has no place in the team. He's even behind Wilkin for a back row spot and is just wasting a bench spot. Time to say goodbye

Re: Brave but ultimately poor : Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:03 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

It's pretty hard to knock the players after that effort last night. A real gruelling game, a fantastic advert for Super League and the intensity of the play offs. Leeds are a superb side, a side of winners and I want them to win it again. They've got everything we're lacking by the bucket load.

Leeds dominated us throughout in terms of field position and Sinfield and particularly Burrow marshalled them round really well. If we had one player of the quality of Sinfield, Burrow or McGuire we'd have won last night. The lads defended superbly, some really heroic stuff. Manu, Jones and Wilkin all tackled themselves to a standstill. I thought Manu was absolutely sensational tonight, setting a ridiculously high standard throughout. LMS too had a dig again.

When we did get chances tonight we were pretty shocking. Although the defense was good tonight, the attack wasn't good enough. We've had a full season under Brown and it still doesn't look like the players actually know what they are supposed to be doing when they get into the opposition half. It seems plays 1 and 2 are just one up tackle wasters to settle in. 3 is a crashball pass telegraphed, faxed and emailed to the defense in advance and plays 4 and 5 are blind panic. I think some of the senior players really need to take some of the blame for it though. Meli's hand in to give a stupid penalty on Leeds' line on a rare sortie down into Leeds 20, Roby's decision to kick on the second when under Leeds' sticks when it wasn't on at all was also stupid. Hohaia seemed to spend the game chastising the likes of Wilkin, Roby and Lomax for what they did on the previous play. Roby in particular was awful in his decision making.

A point I'd given up making recently out of sheer boredom, Paul Wellens. Paul Wellens starting at fullback is one thing. It's a stupid thing and a should-have-ended-4-years-ago thing, but it's nothing compared to the ridiculousness of starting with Paul Wellens on the bench. He didn't seem to get on until the hour mark. Why bring him on at all? Is that Brown protesting at McManus forcing him to be in the 17? Or is there meant to be some kind of point to having the slowest back in the history of the world on the bench?

Last night kind of sums our season up to be honest. Solid in defense, like headless chickens with the ball. It's incredibly naive of us to think Luke Walsh, a player proven to collapse under pressure, will solve all our problems. We NEED another halfback.

Saints were excellent. They made the breaks but Leeds scramble defence was simply excellent.

Two visits into the Leeds 20 in the entire first half showed how tight they were.

Against any other side, one that had two unusable players for 40 mins, Saints would have won.

Champions find a way to win.