Re: Gaz O'Brien : Thu May 30, 2013 8:59 am  

You really are a joke. Jamie Ellis the answer to our problems, im sure were battling it out with Wire, Wigan & Leeds for this sought after signature.
I love you're simplistic approach, we are currently mid table for many reasons. Crippling injury list, Simmons signing the likes of Hohaia as our marquee stand off, & losing once in a decade type players as they finished their careers in KC, Long & Scully was always going to catch up on us.

Theres a cycle in sport, Wigan weren't far off relegation a few years ago. Saints are developing some very good lads & coupled with Walsh, a few big props will see us competing once again. Brown had a thankless task with the squad he inherited, ppl have no patience in sport.

Not many people had an issues with releasing the likes of Ellis (non rugby). What does he's doing nothing wrong mean? He's been poor at Cas this season & isnt up to the standard. Lomax bring identified as the long term FB has left us a hole to fill, which in a sport that allows a 25 man senior squad with salary cap restrictions was never going to resolve itself overnight.

Re: Gaz O'Brien : Thu May 30, 2013 9:05 am  

theres only one stan wall wrote:

You really are a joke. Jamie Ellis the answer to our problems, im sure were battling it out with Wire, Wigan & Leeds for this sought after signature.

No need for the personal insults.

My original point was a criticism of our retention policy bearing in mind that we now need to loan players from other teams, so successful have we been in retaining our own young players (not). I cited two and you resorted to ridicule, simply because one is playing for Cas.

I love you're simplistic approach, we are currently mid table for many reasons.

Really? I thought it was because we have lost too many matches and that would be because we weren't good enough to beat those teams.

Theres a cycle in sport, Wigan weren't far off relegation a few years ago.

Indeed. And presently we are a mid table team. That's where we are up to, which is what I was saying, which is why I find it funny when people look down on Matty Smith (playing in a table topping team) and Jamie Ellis (playing in another mid table team, should they actually manage to hold on to their present coach longer than five minutes).

Re: Gaz O'Brien : Thu May 30, 2013 9:07 am  

It's an improvement on Ashe at least, good short term fix, but doesn't really solve the problem that we've only got one half back for next season.

Re: Gaz O'Brien : Thu May 30, 2013 9:11 am  

St. Rughead wrote:

It's an improvement on Ashe at least, good short term fix, but doesn't really solve the problem that we've only got one half back for next season.

True. Hopefully something is being done in the background to sort out next season.

Re: Gaz O'Brien : Thu May 30, 2013 9:22 am  

Simplistic. Im sure Ive just answered that. We've lost a lot more matches for many reasons. One being our injury list. Take a look at Wigans win percentage without Sam Tomkins. We've gone months without any of our recognised pivots, in Lomax, & Roby, throwing in Wello & Wheeler at to boot. Do you not think we'd be higher up the table had we enjoyed a little more luck with injuries?

Re Ellis its nothing to do with who he plays for. He isn't good enough. Released, doing nothing & is Joe Average. "So successful in retaining our younger players" - weve released those who werent up to the required standard.

I wouldn't swap the likes of Ashurst or Dixon for Thompson, Walker or Greenwood. Percival & Swift are light years ahead of heartless Foster. Which of these released juniors are the answers to our problems? Because no other top 5-6 club wanted them.

Retention is only part of the problem, duff signings from Simmons (Perry & Hohaia) has massively damaged us, especially taking up quota spots. Injuries are another.

Leeds needed to loan a player last year.His name was Lunt - from youre analogy does that mean Leeds have failed in recruitment/retention decisions too? Maybe like us in Charnock & Yates they didnt feel like McShane & Ward were quite ready?
Think we both bring through a similar amount of junior prospects.

Re: Gaz O'Brien : Thu May 30, 2013 9:24 am  

I don't think anyone looks down on Matty Smith. He's a pretty good scrum half with a mighty boot on him. I don't think anyone has him down as a world beater, either.

With hindsight, we would all have liked to have kept him, but no one in their right mind would chosen him over Eastmond. Unfortunately, the club didn't protect themselves and we ended up screwed.

So after Smith, we've got Ellis and Gaskell as half backs we've released. Playing for Cas and Salford. Both of whom are strongly rumoured to have left more due to none rugby issues.

Re: Gaz O'Brien : Thu May 30, 2013 9:27 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

True. Hopefully something is being done in the background to sort out next season.

Do you agree Ashe isnt quite good enough then, if you hope we are looking to sort out a six next year? I hear Ashe might be off to London Broncos, if so would he be added to youre list of saints juniors dotted around superleague weve failed to retain?

Like Ellis another who isnt good enough. Clear as day, & akin to many others that have gone before him, we could "retain" them for the next 10 years & they still wouldn't be good enough.

Re: Gaz O'Brien : Thu May 30, 2013 9:30 am  

What is going on at Saints when we sign a player for a month? As SaintsFan has stated it could take a while for him to fit in making the signing a waste of time. Then again we are getting closer to season ticket renewal time.

Re: Gaz O'Brien : Thu May 30, 2013 9:33 am  

Offside Monkey wrote:

I don't think anyone looks down on Matty Smith. He's a pretty good scrum half with a mighty boot on him. I don't think anyone has him down as a world beater, either.

World beaters are very rare IMO. Mostly we have great down to poor with the majority somewhere in between. Matty Smith offers just what we are now needing but we let him go and at the time we let him go I was one of those who objected to it (and of course was ridiculed for objecting). I saw Eastmond as flashy but Smith as steady. Both are fine but Saints went either/or and that was their mistake. And as I said in the post above, my original comment was a criticism of Saints' retention policy. This is a good example of it.

So after Smith, we've got Ellis and Gaskell as half backs we've released. Playing for Cas and Salford. Both of whom are strongly rumoured to have left more due to none rugby issues.

Rumours shmoomers. While we can't keep all our playing staff - just isn't possible for practical reasons apart from anything else - to let Gaskell go and leave ourselves entirely and completely without a functioning specialist six was simply a dumb decision. No club with any sense does that.

Re: Gaz O'Brien : Thu May 30, 2013 9:36 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

Except I wasn't talking about our under 19s. I was talking about the Saints raised halfbacks we have scattered around the Superleague. I think it speaks to our poor retention that we have been left with no option but to beg off our near neighbours.

Name the ones that are actually good enough for a club that should be aiming for the top few? Gaskell cant even get in the halves for salford, ellis had to go via leigh to cas because of off field issues (and isnt good enough anyway) and briers I wouldn't have had over martyn or longy. The only slight debate here is Matty Smith however we put all our eggs in the xfactor basket with Eastmond and it didnt come off. If we'd have kept Smith and lost Eastmond to another club at that time it'd have been worse