Re: So if Nathan Brown decided : Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:52 pm  

Some people cannot see the forest for the trees. We could have Wayne Bennett in charge, we could have vintage Ian Millward in charge and we could have Daniel Anderson in charge and none of them would be able to do much better with the team/injuries we have at the moment.

It's imperative we give Brown time to rebuild the team. We cannot keep sacking them after half a season and expect to turn it around.

Re: So if Nathan Brown decided : Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:10 pm  

Carlos Alberto wrote:

Some people cannot see the forest for the trees. We could have Wayne Bennett in charge, we could have vintage Ian Millward in charge and we could have Daniel Anderson in charge and none of them would be able to do much better with the team/injuries we have at the moment.

It's imperative we give Brown time to rebuild the team. We cannot keep sacking them after half a season and expect to turn it around.

I didn't start this as a sack brown thread and I've got to say at the moment I agree with you he just hasn't had a chance to do anything . Interesting this though, last year when it was announced that brown was the new man I suggested he should have got involved more with the team at the time, even if it was just observing this for me now poses 2 questions

1. Was he involved , especially around recruitment calls ? If so it could be argued that he has had far more time and influence on the squad shape than we think

2. If he wasn't involved at all until the day he officially started then why not? He was available and about to take on a 3 year project if that was me I'd be wanting start on the front foot , not basically throwing away my first year

Re: So if Nathan Brown decided : Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:23 pm  

Carlos Alberto wrote:

Some people cannot see the forest for the trees. We could have Wayne Bennett in charge, we could have vintage Ian Millward in charge and we could have Daniel Anderson in charge and none of them would be able to do much better with the team/injuries we have at the moment.

It's imperative we give Brown time to rebuild the team. We cannot keep sacking them after half a season and expect to turn it around.

Exactly, we should lower our expectations this season with all these long term injuries getting worse match by match. A fully fit squad with the addition of just one decent half back and prop would transform this team.
Luckily the superleague is poor only Wigan look as though they can hold form, we should make the top 8, what we need is an announcement before the play offs of some major signings to give the fans some hope for the future instead of going through another season of "Groundhog Day".

I don,t think Brown would consider leaving the post, he,s not really had the chance to put his mark on the team, he,s just had to juggle a team of what limited choice of players thats been available.

Re: So if Nathan Brown decided : Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:29 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

Exactly, we should lower our expectations this season with all these long term injuries getting worse match by match. A fully fit squad with the addition of just one decent half back and prop would transform this team.
Luckily the superleague is poor only Wigan look as though they can hold form, we should make the top 8, what we need is an announcement before the play offs of some major signings to give the fans some hope for the future instead of going through another season of "Groundhog Day".

Lower them even more ?? Our only saving grace is the playoffs are a farce so we can retain a modicum of interest in the season, assuming of course we don't slip even further and end up fighting hard for the wooden spoon

Re: So if Nathan Brown decided : Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:27 pm  

my initial Hmmmm response, was that I feared this thread would lead to people looking for a scapegoat.


Brown is not the fault. It's happened over the course of years. But unlike most I don't think it's as bad as people make out.

Teams have times at the top and times in decline. Not 1 year not 5 years, but decades can pass. Before Sean Mc, how many years was it 30 since we won anything.

I'm happy to accept that we are having some down years, but we have still managed to keep in the mix, even last year we had enough about us to be 80 mins away from a final.

This year, I'd say personel wise we started a bit better than 2012. But injuries have killed us. We would have done well to win anything with no halfback. But we would have been turning some of these losses into wins with more players on the pitch.

Current team for me is a top 8 side, team with no injuries is a top 4 side.

But to be final contenders again we need a half. There is no other way around it.

Re: So if Nathan Brown decided : Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:39 pm  

Carlos Alberto wrote:

Some people cannot see the forest for the trees. We could have Wayne Bennett in charge, we could have vintage Ian Millward in charge and we could have Daniel Anderson in charge and none of them would be able to do much better with the team/injuries we have at the moment.

We had just as many injuries in 2011 (in fact, we peaked at having just 18 fit players one week, over half of whom came from the under 20s) but still got to a Grand Final.

Re: So if Nathan Brown decided : Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:16 pm  

The injuries simply aren't a good enough excuse. There is really only Roby and Lomax that would improve us of those missing.

The truth is we were pretty shambolic even before we lost a few players to injuries, we started the season with everyone fit and available and got beat 40-4 by Huddersfield. In previous seasons we've had one or two incredible players who have got us to perform above our true level and that papered over the cracks of what was a rapidly diminishing force. Now a lot of you are hiding behind the injuries and suspensions and using that to paper over the cracks of what is a thoroughly average side.

This seasons Super League is the worst ever, it's terrible. And if Hull KR win tomorrow we'll be 8th. That's not a massively warped picture of where we are now as a team and club. 6th is where we would be if we had everyone fit and we're currently 7th.

A few on here are expecting those players to come back and for us to storm up to the top 3 and blitz our way to the Grand Final. Forget it, the days of us reaching Grand Finals are over.

Re: So if Nathan Brown decided : Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:26 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

The injuries simply aren't a good enough excuse. There is really only Roby and Lomax that would improve us of those missing.

The truth is we were pretty shambolic even before we lost a few players to injuries, we started the season with everyone fit and available and got beat 40-4 by Huddersfield. In previous seasons we've had one or two incredible players who have got us to perform above our true level and that papered over the cracks of what was a rapidly diminishing force. Now a lot of you are hiding behind the injuries and suspensions and using that to paper over the cracks of what is a thoroughly average side.

This seasons Super League is the worst ever, it's terrible. And if Hull KR win tomorrow we'll be 8th. That's not a massively warped picture of where we are now as a team and club. 6th is where we would be if we had everyone fit and we're currently 7th.

A few on here are expecting those players to come back and for us to storm up to the top 3 and blitz our way to the Grand Final. Forget it, the days of us reaching Grand Finals are over.

Really really really really.

I think you are arguing that some of us think we will win SL. No, some of us can see that we would be winning these games with just a few of these players back.

THe halfback situation is a separate matter, that's the killer in terms of winning titles. But that was always the case. The blow out score against Huddersfield tells us as much, as us beating Wire (the team you adore).

why not play the game of taking out 1,2,5,6,8,9,12,13,17 out of other SL sides and see how well they go

Lomax Ade Meli Wilkin Wheeler Perry Roby Manu Flanaghan Walker


The saddened point of view is nothing less than a silverwear winning side. There is no middle ground, well we are not a silverwear winning side, but we are a good side and the injuries do make a difference. Which means we can only push out an average side.

Re: So if Nathan Brown decided : Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:12 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

We had just as many injuries in 2011 (in fact, we peaked at having just 18 fit players one week, over half of whom came from the under 20s) but still got to a Grand Final.

This is going to come back into another Simmons debate I can see it coming off.

We did have injuries in 2011 but in that team we had a fit Lomax, Graham and Roby wich would put this team in a similar position to 2011.

Re: So if Nathan Brown decided : Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:44 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

I think you are arguing that some of us think we will win SL. No, some of us can see that we would be winning these games with just a few of these players back.

Thing is, though, we lost games when the players who were missing were playing. Our discipline was just as bad when those players were in the team than when they are not, and IMO it is actually our discipline - both with the ball and without it - that is killing us in games rather than the absence of those players. We could do with a halfback as well, of course, which would make a big difference to our attack near the line but we gave our one remaining one away so we have asked for that problem really.