Re: Rubbish : Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:11 am  

Fylde_Warrior wrote:

At 18-0 up, a potential massacre was on the agenda. Wigan stopped playing and their standard dropped inviting Saints back into the game.

It's funny how teams always 'stop playing' when the opposition find their feet. It's called momentum, you had it and then it swung (as it does, countless times through a RL match) in our favour.

BackrowSaint wrote:

I made a joke in a thread earlier this week saying the bad news is Lomax is out and the worse news Wellens will be at 6.

That came to fruition today to our detriment. I don't blame that on Wellens at all, he's there to do a job and he gave 100%. Unfortunately it just wasn't for him.

Our lack of any creativity, at all, stifled us today. You need at least one strike player to stand any chance of breaking down Wigan's exceptionally organised defence. To have a good chance of scoring enough to win you need 2 or 3.

Wellens gave his best, but he's never a 6. I think we are better going with either Charnock or maybe Turner at 6 with Percival staying at centre and Jones moving from the back-row.

[DaveO]

Re: Rubbish : Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:07 am  

Albion wrote:

It's funny how teams always 'stop playing' when the opposition find their feet. It's called momentum, you had it and then it swung (as it does, countless times through a RL match) in our favour.

Before there was any of that it was down to Wigan's mistakes it wasn't 30-0. Smith went for glory with four players outside him and Hughes dropped the ball with the line begging. The momentum was all Wigan at that time and I don't think Saints had anything to do with the fact it was only 18-0 at half time and not 30-0.

My view is the occasion got to some of the younger Wigan forwards as the game progressed. Logan Tompkins has done well at hooker as interchange recently but didn't today. Hughes had a bad day (he is better than that). Add to that Lockers clearly wasn't anywhere near fit and for that matter Sam T wasn't either I think the game showed Wigan are also close to the edge squad-wise. The difference was the backs. Sam T's fitness apart we were at full strength in the backs and that helps defensively as much as on attack.

Re: Rubbish : Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:44 am  

DaveO wrote:

Before there was any of that it was down to Wigan's mistakes it wasn't 30-0. Smith went for glory with four players outside him and Hughes dropped the ball with the line begging. The momentum was all Wigan at that time and I don't think Saints had anything to do with the fact it was only 18-0 at half time and not 30-0.

My view is the occasion got to some of the younger Wigan forwards as the game progressed. Logan Tompkins has done well at hooker as interchange recently but didn't today. Hughes had a bad day (he is better than that). Add to that Lockers clearly wasn't anywhere near fit and for that matter Sam T wasn't either I think the game showed Wigan are also close to the edge squad-wise. The difference was the backs. Sam T's fitness apart we were at full strength in the backs and that helps defensively as much as on attack.

Saints bombed two tries as well. Gardner should have strolled in at 0-0 and they broke shortly after the Flower incident when he went the wrong way and should probably have scored.

Just seen the Clough 'try' and I'm not sure where they pulled that from. Benefit of the doubt maybe but the ball always looked as though it was on a hand for me.

Re: Rubbish : Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:12 pm  

The second half effort/performance has to be up there with the best of the season so far given what we had to work with.

However the first half was an embarrassment. It seemed to be only Sia, Walmsley and Gardner who turned up to play a derby. We seemed to lack enthusiasm and aggression untill Walmsley and Soliola came on. There was a point coming out from our own line under pressure, Makinson literally walked it in. I'm not just picking on the lad because he wasn't on his own it's just one I remember.

I maybe being over-critical given the second half effort/performance i'm just annoyed at being continuously out enthused and out 'upforit'ed when we play Wigan.

Re: Rubbish : Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:19 pm  

At half time i thought the match was heading for a 50 point to zero blow out.
However credit to saints i think our bench which was stronger than Wigan, started to make a difference.

Clough and Walmsley got the pack going forward and from that we were able to cause Wigan a few problems.

One thing that stood out during the half time analysis on Sky was how little ball Wigan got within the Saints 20 metre zone. They only had i think 4 play the balls. Yet despite that were 18-0 up and should have been more in all fairness.

What that indicates to me is that Saints were good at getting territory, but lacked the pace and guile to do anything with it. This is something we expected when seeing the side.
Defensively we were also all at sea against an organised pacey Wigan attack, that could launch blitzkrieg raids from any part of the field. The defensive frailty is somewhat understandable due to the patched up nature of the side, with players operating outside their comfort zones. This was also impacted further by the injuries mid game which caused further reshuffling of players.

I think Saints will have learned more from that game of Wigan than visa versa. Saints saw how Wigan attacked them, Wigan however still dont know how a team containing Roby, Lomax and Hohoia will attack them.

For me it was noticeable how upbeat Nathan Brown was at the end of the match. Wane was obviously happy with the win but frustrated at Wigan. I think this was in part because he realised this was a chance to humiliate Saints and strike a massive psychological blow for the season ahead. The inability of Wigan to do so, along with the second half comeback by Saints highlighted that a patched up Saints side still had the ability to strike back and cause Wigan issues.

Put it another way, Wigan can improve in their pack with their injured players returning, defensively in the shape of Hanson and in go forward with Mossop. (Luaki and Prescott i think arent any better than the guys they have out their now), but i dont think their attack can improve much, as its already settled and running their attacking plays with a high degree of fluidity.

Saints on the other hand can improve in their pack, ROBY, PULETUA and to a much lesser extent PERRY can make a massive positive gain to our forward operations, as can Manu who left the field after just 20 mins on Friday.

In the backs Lomax at fullback and Hohoia in the halves gives us far more fluidity and pace in our attack, they are a quantum leap ahead of Makinson at fullback and Wellens at standoff.
Makinson it must be noted caused Wigan problems and had a fine game, which should worry them a great deal, as Lomax is in a completely different league.
Wellens operating at loose forward is also at this stage an unknown quantity. It could work out well or it could be a flop.

Re: Rubbish : Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:51 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

At half time i thought the match was heading for a 50 point to zero blow out.
However credit to saints i think our bench which was stronger than Wigan, started to make a difference.

Clough and Walmsley got the pack going forward and from that we were able to cause Wigan a few problems.

One thing that stood out during the half time analysis on Sky was how little ball Wigan got within the Saints 20 metre zone. They only had i think 4 play the balls. Yet despite that were 18-0 up and should have been more in all fairness.

What that indicates to me is that Saints were good at getting territory, but lacked the pace and guile to do anything with it. This is something we expected when seeing the side.
Defensively we were also all at sea against an organised pacey Wigan attack, that could launch blitzkrieg raids from any part of the field. The defensive frailty is somewhat understandable due to the patched up nature of the side, with players operating outside their comfort zones. This was also impacted further by the injuries mid game which caused further reshuffling of players.

I think Saints will have learned more from that game of Wigan than visa versa. Saints saw how Wigan attacked them, Wigan however still dont know how a team containing Roby, Lomax and Hohoia will attack them.

For me it was noticeable how upbeat Nathan Brown was at the end of the match. Wane was obviously happy with the win but frustrated at Wigan. I think this was in part because he realised this was a chance to humiliate Saints and strike a massive psychological blow for the season ahead. The inability of Wigan to do so, along with the second half comeback by Saints highlighted that a patched up Saints side still had the ability to strike back and cause Wigan issues.

Put it another way, Wigan can improve in their pack with their injured players returning, defensively in the shape of Hanson and in go forward with Mossop. (Luaki and Prescott i think arent any better than the guys they have out their now), but i dont think their attack can improve much, as its already settled and running their attacking plays with a high degree of fluidity.

Saints on the other hand can improve in their pack, ROBY, PULETUA and to a much lesser extent PERRY can make a massive positive gain to our forward operations, as can Manu who left the field after just 20 mins on Friday.

In the backs Lomax at fullback and Hohoia in the halves gives us far more fluidity and pace in our attack, they are a quantum leap ahead of Makinson at fullback and Wellens at standoff.
Makinson it must be noted caused Wigan problems and had a fine game, which should worry them a great deal, as Lomax is in a completely different league.
Wellens operating at loose forward is also at this stage an unknown quantity. It could work out well or it could be a flop.

Interesting take on things.

I think Wigan are an entirely different prospect with a healthy pack. At the moment we're winning games with the backs.

We don't boss any forward battles at the moment. We will when everyone is back.

Re: Rubbish : Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:59 pm  

P-J wrote:

We don't boss any forward battles at the moment. We will when everyone is back.

The injured players aren't exactly fantastic. You let your one genuinely dangerous forward leave and sign for Widnes. Realistically there are only Lauaki, Mossop, Prescott and Hansen who could come into the side and Lauaki and Prescott are pretty terrible. Hansen would improve you but he's another workhorse so I'm not convinced he'd make much of a difference.

Re: Rubbish : Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:03 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

The injured players aren't exactly fantastic. You let your one genuinely dangerous forward leave and sign for Widnes. Realistically there are only Lauaki, Mossop, Prescott and Hansen who could come into the side and Lauaki and Prescott are pretty terrible. Hansen would improve you but he's another workhorse so I'm not convinced he'd make much of a difference.

And Dudson.

That's five. What it would do is allow us to rotate the younger players. I could also add Gelling in there, he is a really strong ball carrier, if somewhat raw (or poor) depending on your opinion in his decision making.

Re: Rubbish : Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:08 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

And Dudson.

That's five. What it would do is allow us to rotate the younger players. I could also add Gelling in there, he is a really strong ball carrier, if somewhat raw (or poor) depending on your opinion in his decision making.

Exactly, it would allow rotation of these young players.

More to the point, Dudson, Prescott, Mossop and Hansen are big units. Something we're sorely lacking.

Re: Rubbish : Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:51 pm  

After watching the game and all the pre match arguments that Lomax is first choice fullback now, where do you guys actually see Wellens. Theres no doubting his heart and commitment to the cause but I just dont see him at 1, 6 or 13. The problem yesterday wasnt just the lack of creativity in your halves but the lack of pace and agility defensively which killed you especially in that first half. Wellens and Wilkin just couldnt cope with the speed of the Wigan attack coming at them with the short off the shoulder passes. Is it time for him to be a rotation back up player because where ever you play him he seems to be the weak link. Age gets us all.

On another note Percival looks a frightening prospect. Very impressed on the televised games ive seen of him