Re: Starting 17 : Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:15 pm  

Because it's not a starting 17 for a GF, but more an experiemental 17 which should still be capable against struggling sides and will give oppertunities to some players to try new slots.

Re: Starting 17 : Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:51 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

Dont know the rationale behind some people suggesting playing Turner on the wing.

The guy has only played wing once in his entire professional career and that was in 2007 when he was 17 years old and making only his third appearance.

Other than that he has been at centre for 78 games, standoff 10 games, Loose forward 3 games, and fullback 1 game.
He has played from the bench 14 times. Mostly when a kid at Salford.

At centre he has scored 34 trys in those 78 appearances.

Probably because he is very poor defensively at centre and would be less of a liability there?

Re: Starting 17 : Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:24 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

Probably because he is very poor defensively at centre and would be less of a liability there?

He isnt very poor defensively.

His tackle completion rate is 90.2%
His centre partner Kirk Yeaman who is supposed to be strong defensively has a completion rate of 83%

That tells me the proplem isnt Turner but actually Hulls defensive structure as a whole.
This is backed up by the overall team stats
As a team Saints finished the Season with an overall tackle completion rate of 94.75%, the best in the entire league. Hulls team average was 92.75%

It also must be noted that Shenton who is supposed to be a top line defensive centre had a completion rate of 92% playing in a far superior team than Hull.

I dont expect Turner to be James Roby in the defensive stakes, but i do expect him to be a competent if not exceptional defender.

You would think from the comments of some Saints fans that Turner is a turnstyle.

Re: Starting 17 : Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:37 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

Dont know the rationale behind some people suggesting playing Turner on the wing.

The guy has only played wing once in his entire professional career and that was in 2007 when he was 17 years old and making only his third appearance.

Other than that he has been at centre for 78 games, standoff 10 games, Loose forward 3 games, and fullback 1 game.
He has played from the bench 14 times. Mostly when a kid at Salford.

At centre he has scored 34 trys in those 78 appearances.

The same rationale that has some on here ( including you if memory serves ) that have been asking for Jonny Lomax to play fullback when he has only played th position once in his life ( His first team debut at Wakefield ).

Re: Starting 17 : Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:38 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

He isnt very poor defensively.

His tackle completion rate is 90.2%
His centre partner Kirk Yeaman who is supposed to be strong defensively has a completion rate of 83%

That tells me the proplem isnt Turner but actually Hulls defensive structure as a whole.
This is backed up by the overall team stats
As a team Saints finished the Season with an overall tackle completion rate of 94.75%, the best in the entire league. Hulls team average was 92.75%

It also must be noted that Shenton who is supposed to be a top line defensive centre had a completion rate of 92% playing in a far superior team than Hull.

I dont expect Turner to be James Roby in the defensive stakes, but i do expect him to be a competent if not exceptional defender.

You would think from the comments of some Saints fans that Turner is a turnstyle.

Read what the Hull fans think about him, ask them if they rate him defensively. Missed tackle stats include only tackles where the player actually attempts a tackle don't they? If a player is stepped or walked past and doesn't lay a finger on them, it doesn't count at all. It's one of the reasons Wello's stats don't look so bad, he's usually 12 feet away from being able to 'miss' a tackle.

Re: Starting 17 : Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:10 am  

The Chair Maker wrote:

Dont know the rationale behind some people suggesting playing Turner on the wing.

My main rationale is that I want my centres to be Meli and Jones.

Testimony of the hull fans says he's a poor defender. I think they tend to focus more ont he positioning aspect of it than the physical tackling.

I rate Jones and think he could really kick on next year in a team that will (hopefully) look like its coached better than last.

I rate Meli as a very good centre, in fact I rate him as a good player anywhere, but any weaknesses he has are aplified by the wing spot.

Turner is fast and athletic and an exciting player with ball in hand, so I want him on the pitch. I have chosen him on the wing so he can use his pace in attack and strength coming out of our own half. Assuming he can catch, his athletisism should see him capable under the high ball, even when being attacked by big wingers.

Re: Starting 17 : Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:58 am  

Top Saint wrote:

The same rationale that has some on here ( including you if memory serves ) that have been asking for Jonny Lomax to play fullback when he has only played th position once in his life ( His first team debut at Wakefield ).

I have in the past championed Lomax at Fullback, and he has played there more than once in the first team. I think its 4 times. However more importantly he played quite a bit in the reserves at Fullback, along with Hooker i might also add. Though i dont personally want Jonny to go hooker as i think one of his great strengths is support play, which is nullified when going into the hooking position.

The other aspect of championing Jonny as a potential fullback is the confidence he showed playing on the wing.
The fact he is a half by trade also is a plus point in the modern game as the fullback today is a key part of a sides creative attack.

Personally though on the limited viewing i have seen, i think Swift may be the man for the job due to his exceptional pace and agility, not too mention nerves of steel he has so far shown taking bombs. However i have also seen Gaskell play full back in the reserves and he is somewhat potent in that position as well.
Another option at Fullback is Jamie Foster. He played quite a bit in the reserves there. Thats of course discounting Ashe who is another fine player we have with pace.

Re: Starting 17 : Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:42 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

I have in the past championed Lomax at Fullback, and he has played there more than once in the first team. I think its 4 times. However more importantly he played quite a bit in the reserves at Fullback, along with Hooker i might also add. Though i dont personally want Jonny to go hooker as i think one of his great strengths is support play, which is nullified when going into the hooking position.

The other aspect of championing Jonny as a potential fullback is the confidence he showed playing on the wing.
The fact he is a half by trade also is a plus point in the modern game as the fullback today is a key part of a sides creative attack.

Personally though on the limited viewing i have seen, i think Swift may be the man for the job due to his exceptional pace and agility, not too mention nerves of steel he has so far shown taking bombs. However i have also seen Gaskell play full back in the reserves and he is somewhat potent in that position as well.
Another option at Fullback is Jamie Foster. He played quite a bit in the reserves there. Thats of course discounting Ashe who is another fine player we have with pace.

And that's the point isn't it we had potential to try out in that slot. Say the 40 - nil game against Wakey at home, but because we played Wellens week in and week out 12 months has gone and we are none the wiser. Wire where resting Hodgson, it does not mean they are not going to pick him for the GF and CC final, but at least they have tried and tested the future at FB. I understand the reasons for it, I understand it got us out of a hole, but I still think at some point we could have said, we are out the hole, lets have a look around.

If the same was to happen this year then we should have sold some of these youngster to at least get some cash rather than letting them walk for free at the end of the year.

Re: Starting 17 : Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:22 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

I have in the past championed Lomax at Fullback, and he has played there more than once in the first team. I think its 4 times. However more importantly he played quite a bit in the reserves at Fullback, along with Hooker i might also add. Though i dont personally want Jonny to go hooker as i think one of his great strengths is support play, which is nullified when going into the hooking position.

The other aspect of championing Jonny as a potential fullback is the confidence he showed playing on the wing.
The fact he is a half by trade also is a plus point in the modern game as the fullback today is a key part of a sides creative attack.

Personally though on the limited viewing i have seen, i think Swift may be the man for the job due to his exceptional pace and agility, not too mention nerves of steel he has so far shown taking bombs. However i have also seen Gaskell play full back in the reserves and he is somewhat potent in that position as well.
Another option at Fullback is Jamie Foster. He played quite a bit in the reserves there. Thats of course discounting Ashe who is another fine player we have with pace.

He has only started as fullback once. You are right that he has played there another few times but only for part games to cover injuries/reshuffles.

I think he probably does have many attributes that would make him a good fullback. However, I believe his elusive running style is best utilized in the halves and would be wasted at fullback. The only thing Lomax is missing at halfback is an good organizing halfback partner. Not all halfbacks have to be fantastic organizers with a good kicking game. I personally think his best position is standoff with a Danny Brough type scrum half inside him.

Re: Starting 17 : Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:19 pm  

Top Saint wrote: He has only started as fullback once. You are right that he has played there another few times but only for part games to cover injuries/reshuffles. I think he probably does have many attributes that would make him a good fullback. However, I believe his elusive running style is best utilized in the halves and would be wasted at fullback. The only thing Lomax is missing at halfback is an good organizing halfback partner. Not all halfbacks have to be fantastic organizers with a good kicking game. I personally think his best position is standoff with a Danny Brough type scrum half inside him. I'm perhaps being pedantic, however the figure of playing 4 times at fullback is backed up by the Rugby League project website. The stats there are compiled by legendary Saints fan Billy Bates. http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/match ... 0tLS0tLS0t

Top Saint wrote: He has only started as fullback once. You are right that he has played there another few times but only for part games to cover injuries/reshuffles. I think he probably does have many attributes that would make him a good fullback. However, I believe his elusive running style is best utilized in the halves and would be wasted at fullback. The only thing Lomax is missing at halfback is an good organizing halfback partner. Not all halfbacks have to be fantastic organizers with a good kicking game. I personally think his best position is standoff with a Danny Brough type scrum half inside him. I'm perhaps being pedantic, however the figure of playing 4 times at fullback is backed up by the Rugby League project website. The stats there are compiled by legendary Saints fan Billy Bates. http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/match ... 0tLS0tLS0t