Re: Message for ................... : Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:56 am  

Harry Pinner wrote:

Catalunya may have been a heartland for 60 years but the Catalan Dragons have only been a team at all since 2000.

Therefore the club is not in an expansion area.

London have had rugby league for about 30 years. That is an expansion area.

Re: Message for ................... : Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:06 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

Also Macmanus did not say expansion was bad,

That is naive. He has also said in the press that he wants the league down to 12 teams. Put the two together and of course he thinks expansion is 'bad' (ie not a good idea). I wonder which teams he would drop to get back to 12? Definitely London because that's in an expansion area. But which other one? All the rest are from heartlands areas. There has even been a team in Salford since the 1930s but maybe that's an expansion area in McManus's mind so perhaps he would ditch Salford too.

He should stop making public comments about other clubs. His business is Saints and that's what he should still to commenting upon in public.

Re: Message for ................... : Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:56 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

That is naive. He has also said in the press that he wants the league down to 12 teams. Put the two together and of course he thinks expansion is 'bad' (ie not a good idea). I wonder which teams he would drop to get back to 12? Definitely London because that's in an expansion area. But which other one? All the rest are from heartlands areas. There has even been a team in Salford since the 1930s but maybe that's an expansion area in McManus's mind so perhaps he would ditch Salford too.

He should stop making public comments about other clubs. His business is Saints and that's what he should still to commenting upon in public.

I think you are missing the point in a big way on what McManus is trying to put across the professional establishment.
McManus is probably one of the most qualified in judging future projections and is just voicing his concern on the financial and structure shape of Superleague.
He will never in public, do what you have done based on supposition, name certain clubs to exist outside Superleague.
We are in a period of less sponsorhip, less media prescence, less quality players coming through. There is also a concern about the present salary cap competing against the RU and NRL cap values and income streams.
This environment is what McManus is talking about with his concern whether a 14 team structure can survive under these constraints, and not a self judgement on dropping the likes of London or Salford as you imply........thats for the RFl to consider by process.

Re: Message for ................... : Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:44 am  

Judder Man wrote:

I think you are missing the point in a big way on what McManus is trying to put across the professional establishment.

To start with, I fully understand what he is saying. What you appear to be unable to appreciate is that I simply disagree with him saying it to the press. If indeed he wanted to put his point across to the 'professional establishment' then the place to do that is in the appropriate forum, not the press.

He has made negative comments about other clubs and you can couch that how ever you want to, he has still done so and I don't think it is his place to do so to the press.

He isn't the only chairman who does this of course: the two Hull chairmen like the sound of their own voices as well as does the Leeds chairman. Others, though, keep their thoughts to themselves and get on with the job of running their respective clubs. Those chairmen are, in my view, showing a more professional approach.

You disagree with me, and that's fine. But that is my view.

Re: Message for ................... : Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:39 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

The code 13 article is very good PR but lets get this straight, they are playing more RL in schools, that's hardly a ringing endorsement.

When I was in school I played basketball. I've never been or intend to go to a match to watch basketball and have only watch on TV for about 10 minutes in my entire life.

Kids playing RL in school is not a sign of expansion, it's a sign we have pumpe enough help and money in to get it on the PE schedule in more schools. As an ex teacher if the UK bowling commision came to the school and offered coaching and help getting bowling on the PE schedule then it's more likely that it would get on the schedule as you would grab any extra help or funding you can get.

So the schools part of it only helps if those kids leave school and play RL. The adults figure is more encouraging, but it does not say where those adults are playing.

Any PR like this looks good until you take it apart and ask the serious questions, if 29,000 of those extra adults are playing in Yorkshire and Lancashire then it proves zip about expansion.

The only stat tied to expansion geographically is 2 community coaches. The rest could be schools anywhere and adults anywhere.


Also Macmanus did not say expansion was bad, he said with hindsight we have pumped more money in than we should have. Lets not confuse issues, the money put into grassroots expansion is not what he is talking about here, it's the millions put into expansion clubs for 1, 2 or 3 seasons only to drop them.

Gateshead, PSG, Crusaders etc etc If those millions had been put into places like sheffield, doncaster, I would also say north wales we would have a larger region and a better stronger base. But like he says with hinsight, he does not say he thought it at the time.

As for Catalan, it's not an expansion of RL, That area of france was a hot bed of RL. It's like creating a SL club in Cumbria and claiming expansion. It's not there is a base of fans and players there already. Catalan was actually creating a club where there was demand, rather than creating a club and hoping demand comes.

I'm not against expansion, but I do feel it's more important to expand from your base, rather than creating outposts one there own where no local rivalry can be built. The local rivalry is part and parcel of RL. South Wales had zero rivalry, North Wales could have had a rivalry with Widnes. Wrexham is great for England v Wales rivalries. I do hope they come back as they got decent crowds for only 2 years with no original base to speak of.

Wrexham was an appallingly botched missed opportunity - the only expansion area RL has ever entered at the top level that showed any real enthusiasm for the game and managed to develop any kind of a real fanbase and it was tossed away and allowed to die after 2 seasons. A crying shame...

Re: Message for ................... : Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:33 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

And how many did the heartland clubs like Leigh, and Workington get during their Super League tenure?

The answer is more than London and that was an isolated season. If the likes of Leigh, Workington , etc had the forebearance, investment and general rule bending London have enjoyed they would be probably be averaging at least 3 or 4 times that of the London club and producing many more homegrown players.

Re: Message for ................... : Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:41 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

That is naive. He has also said in the press that he wants the league down to 12 teams. Put the two together and of course he thinks expansion is 'bad' (ie not a good idea). I wonder which teams he would drop to get back to 12? Definitely London because that's in an expansion area. But which other one? All the rest are from heartlands areas. There has even been a team in Salford since the 1930s but maybe that's an expansion area in McManus's mind so perhaps he would ditch Salford too.

He should stop making public comments about other clubs. His business is Saints and that's what he should still to commenting upon in public.

All this talk about reducing the league to 12 clubs, wonder how those who back this such as McManus would agree to 14 club names in a bag and the two not pulled out are sent down to the Championship? very much doubt it!

Club Chairman should back their club, nor sure about running it! at one time you would not be able to name many chairmen in rugby league as they did not like to take the limelight.

Re: Message for ................... : Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:52 am  

jaybs wrote:

All this talk about reducing the league to 12 clubs, wonder how those who back this such as McManus would agree to 14 club names in a bag and the two not pulled out are sent down to the Championship? very much doubt it!

Because that would make loads of commercial sense wouldn't it. If your kicking clubs out you kick out the weakest ones.