Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:03 am  

McClennan wrote:

Our biggest problem is in defence where we were found wanting again in the collision and speed of PTBs. We couldn't slow down Warrington and Tony Smith, being the very good coach that he is, did the same as the pies do against us. Suck us in with the quick PTB then throw it out wide.

After the Catalan game, Mike Rush spoke about how he couldn't understand the ruck this year, and that every team we play have lightening fast play the balls and we can't seem to buy one.

I was so frustrated when he said that, as it is clear as day to me, unless he was just trying to put pressure on referees. Maybe you should send him a letter to explain?

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:19 am  

theres only one stan wall wrote:

Line speed & aggression badly missing last night. I thought we were equally lazy in attack. One man rugby with no running options or support which is so easy to defend against. I dont like Hohaia, he'll never be a half back as long as he has a hole in his ass, but no one running lines or hitting holes makes it even harder.
These tactics dont work against the top sides. Would rather go out "having a go". Next three games gives us the chance to implement some changes & experiment. We currently have no plan B.
Blood Makinson at full back, Gaskell in at six, & interchange Roby & Lance with Roby spelling at loose forward.

unfortunately Rush doesn't have the bottle to make such changes

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:35 am  

I think we were awful round the PTB area last night, the amount of times we still had players with back to ball trying to get back the 10 and Warrington had played the ball was unreal.

For me the only person who won the PTB consistently was Josh Perry, everytime he was involved in the tackle he was trying to hold the player up for as long as possible before dumping them on their backs with such ease.

One idiot behind me was moaning about how quick Warrington PTB was, then in the next breath screaming at Perry to get off Morley before he give a penatly and he was nothing but a peantly machine, and IIRC correctly he never gave a penatly for messing about in the tackle, he does that very well.

With ball in hand i thought Clough had a good game, espically when running back at the ruck on the angle, he managed to get a few loose arms make good yards and land on his front alot which we never did much thoughout the game.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:05 pm  

Good shout on Clough. I thought he was probably the pick of the side yesterday.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:31 pm  

We're losing territory as the defence wasn't as intense as Wire's, we also lack a kicking game. If Gaskell does nothing else he gives us a booming kicking game than consistently finds the floor behind the winger/fullback.

Lomax has done little for me recently, his running game is not effective and he doesn't contribute organisationally. This may be down to him, this may be down to the set up of the team, but he's just not getting involved in broken play which is where he's more effective.

I think player wise, we aren't far behind Wigan and Wire, each team has it's positives and negatives, where we are behind is in coaching. We have players that can turn over 3/4 of the league with a basic game, what we don't have is a coaching team that can deliver that extra 10% to enable us to beat teams of similar stature consistently. Brown can't come in quick enough for me.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:55 pm  

I agree about the kicking game, yesterday everytime it was last tackle for Warrington i was worried about the outcome, whereas with our kicking game i found myself thinking thats a decent kick for 'us' because it bounced once before it was easily collected. On one occasion i think it was Lomax? got the ball off Roby and i never seen him once before or after receving the ball have a look where anyone was it was a case of how far can i kick it.

Also what was with the amount of time we gave for them to get a kick away, im not making excuses for Meli or Makinson, they was awful under the kicks, but i bet they was sick of the sight of Briers have 5 minutes to pin point each kick without any pressure being put on him, Briers is the best kicker in the league, why give him the time? Once we put pressure on him.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:19 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

We're losing territory as the defence wasn't as intense as Wire's, we also lack a kicking game. If Gaskell does nothing else he gives us a booming kicking game than consistently finds the floor behind the winger/fullback.

Lomax has done little for me recently, his running game is not effective and he doesn't contribute organisationally. This may be down to him, this may be down to the set up of the team, but he's just not getting involved in broken play which is where he's more effective.

I think player wise, we aren't far behind Wigan and Wire, each team has it's positives and negatives, where we are behind is in coaching. We have players that can turn over 3/4 of the league with a basic game, what we don't have is a coaching team that can deliver that extra 10% to enable us to beat teams of similar stature consistently. Brown can't come in quick enough for me.

Absolutely right on all points. I'm still no fan of Gaskell but he couldn't be doing any worse a job than Lance is. I reckon we need a half back desperately, an extra prop for squad depth, a replacement for Meli if he leaves, a replacement for Makinson if he continues his Foster-like decline of late and a replacement for Turner if he doesn't improve PDQ when he gets here. Give us that lot (easier said than done granted), some decent coaching/tactics and a bit of the old hunger and we're pretty much a match for anyone player-for-player. Otherwise we'll be back to tediously grinding up 80% of the league for most of the season and then being run ragged come the big games as this year.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:30 pm  

The reason we can't get a quick PTB is because we get absolutely mullered in contact.

The few times we won the collision yesterday and actually got on the front foot, Warrington scrambled off us and we got the quick play.

We need to get out of the habit of expecting to be given a fast ruck. It's not 2005 anymore and you need to earn it by getting on top in the forwards.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:37 pm  

(Saint) wrote:

The reason we can't get a quick PTB is because we get absolutely mullered in contact.

The few times we won the collision yesterday and actually got on the front foot, Warrington scrambled off us and we got the quick play.

We need to get out of the habit of expecting to be given a fast ruck. It's not 2005 anymore and you need to earn it by getting on top in the forwards.

I think some things can be taken from Rush's comments in regard to going back to what Anderson did in his time at Saints, the game has since moved on and we've gone backwards tactically.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:24 pm  

We totally lack structure in attack, Warrington moved up quickly in defence and we just fell to pieces, it was embarrassing at times. Got to agree on the prop situation too , Laffranchi (sp) looked like a back rower playing prop yesterday

For me we should have Lomaskell in the halves and Lance at FB , it would make us far less predictable