Re: St Helens squad next year : Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:15 pm  

Saint Simon wrote:

she's either a troll or has no knowlege of sport at all

I'm neither a troll nor ignorant of sport. I am a visionary. Didn't you know?

PS: Some people do actually share my concerns!

Re: St Helens squad next year : Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:45 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

I'm neither a troll nor ignorant of sport. I am a visionary. Didn't you know?

PS: Some people do actually share my concerns!

well the greatest thinker arnt apprieciated in their own time, perhaps this applies to you?

Re: St Helens squad next year : Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:57 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

Is sarcasm black and white? I've never thought of it that way.

Fact is, Hudds have now lost four matches on the bounce and they've done this regularly under Brown at around the same time. If nobody else is concerned about that then fine but I am. I am concerned for the chances of our team to get to and win another Grand Final. We're a bit short on wins in those in case you haven't noticed.

It's not the only thing that concerns me about Brown though. I'm also concerned about his will I go/will I stay routine and how the Hudds faithful are of the view that he plays players out of position (something, you may remember, that I didn't like about Potter).

I'm quite happy to be proven mistaken in my concerns, and only time will tell as he's contracted to Saints for three years. But I'm not going to jump on the Brown=Messiah bandwagon when I have genuine reservations.

I think your missing the point.

Hudds is a different team to saints, different players, different styles and it's impossible to say we will have a mid season slump like hudds do.

He's working with the squad he's got and IMO that's a 6/7th in the league squad which is certainly behind saints, Leeds, Warrington, catalan, hull and Wigan in terms of playing rosta but they over achieve and when they loose a few it's doom and gloom.

Brown has been brought to saints for the overall outstanding job he's done at hudds not based on four games a year. He's been brought to saints becsuse he's a very very good coach.

How can you be concerned by something that happens at another club?

Re: St Helens squad next year : Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:01 am  

The will he stay will he go routine is a slight cause for concern and I would say has contibuted to that drop off in form, the tinkering does not bother me in the slightest. Millward was the biggest tinker man and it served him well. I also think we need a tinkerman. We have had a period of tried and tested under Potter and Royce and the current crew.

I want a coach to come in and not just be happy to keep pushing out the same people in the same slots and never trying them elsewhere. Things that could but I think Meli to centre was the only experiment I can think of in recent years.

I'm looking forward to see what brown can do with some talented players, but who maybe lack that week in week out intensity that Wigan have.

Re: St Helens squad next year : Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:23 pm  

Brown wasn't my first choice but in comparison to Simmons and even Potter his teams look better all round. Whatever is happening at Huddersfield is their problem not our's and if we can continue to produce results imagine what we'll be like with a coach who can improve our defence.

Re: St Helens squad next year : Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:49 pm  

McClennan wrote:

Brown wasn't my first choice but in comparison to Simmons and even Potter his teams look better all round. Whatever is happening at Huddersfield is their problem not our's and if we can continue to produce results imagine what we'll be like with a coach who can improve our defence.

Apart from individual brainfarts and the odd wopping by the goons, our defence has been reasonable this year. It's our attack that has been poor.

Re: St Helens squad next year : Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:52 pm  

SomersetSaint wrote:

Apart from individual brainfarts and the odd wopping by the goons, our defence has been reasonable this year. It's our attack that has been poor.

Reasonable isn't good enough to win titles. We need to be excellent and as solid as we can we lack that bite in the collision. When we're tackling players we are stopping them but not forcing them back or making them work for the yards. The reason why we've lost to the pies this season is that we haven't won those collisions. When we get tackled we have to battle to even compete in the tackle whereas when we tackle we're more of a speed bump than a brick wall.

Re: St Helens squad next year : Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:52 pm  

SomersetSaint wrote:

Apart from individual brainfarts and the odd wopping by the goons, our defence has been reasonable this year. It's our attack that has been poor.

Early on in the season our defence was shocking but I think rush and KC have made it slightly better(still not good enough, to soft) but our attack has been very poor most of the year. Some games we've put big scores on and I've been left thinking how the hell did we put that score on!

Brown will bring structure in attack and defence and that's what we are in dire need of.

Re: St Helens squad next year : Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:28 pm  

St pete wrote:

Hudds is a different team to saints, different players, different styles and it's impossible to say we will have a mid season slump like hudds do.

Indeed. That's why I said that time will tell. But it remains a concern for me because it has happened at Hudds throughout his time as coach there. If any coach of ours had overseen a repeated second half season slump while in charge, everyone on here would believe it was the coach because of that element of predictability.

He's working with the squad he's got and IMO that's a 6/7th in the league squad which is certainly behind saints, Leeds, Warrington, catalan, hull and Wigan in terms of playing rosta but they over achieve and when they loose a few it's doom and gloom.

You think they are behind us? For the last two seasons we have been behind them! (I think we were behind them in 2010 too for some of the season but I can't remember) And as for Leeds ... at present they aren't even in the top eight.

Brown has been brought to saints for the overall outstanding job he's done at hudds not based on four games a year. He's been brought to saints becsuse he's a very very good coach.

I presume our chairman thinks he is a good coach and that is why he has given him a three year contract. I have little faith in our chairman when it comes to making decisions on the rugby front but as I said earlier, time will tell. As for doing an outstanding job, I would agree with you had his team been to a number of finals or shown signs of playing up in the pressure games but they have been to one final and consistently fail to play up in the pressure games. I am therefore concerned that our present attitude in pressure games will not be turned around under Brown. However, as I have also already said, I hope to be proven wrong.

How can you be concerned by something that happens at another club?

Because the performance of a team under his coaching for a period of four years is good evidence as to the impact of that coaching on a team, a team that has changed over the four years as well. He has brought in most of those players.

Re: St Helens squad next year : Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:33 pm  

St pete wrote:

Early on in the season our defence was shocking but I think rush and KC have made it slightly better(still not good enough, to soft)

I don't see any change at all in our defence since Rush has been in charge. We defended very well in some games while Simmons was still here just as we didn't defend so well in two (HKR and Catalans). We almost gave away the CC game to Widnes, Catalans-stylee, and didn't even bother turning up to Manchester (our worst defensive showing of the season so far). Presumably they all received a sound kicking before going to Hull but that isn't the first time they have defended like that. At Bradford they were down to 12 men but didn't concede, for example; against Cas they defended their line resolutely to hold on for a win, and obviously they did a big stint in defence at Hull but that was due in large part to them indulging in something else they have been fairly consistent in doing all season: dropping the ball and giving away penalties (presumably in dangerous territory).