Re: Nathan Brown's list of priorities : Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:44 pm  

These are the options that brown has over the next 2 years. Although the Sia option will probably be decided before he gets here. In fact alot of contracts this year will need to be decided before he gets here. So the current set up will need to make those decisions or we will not have enough time come October to sign anyone as other teams will have made their move.

Paul Wellens 2012 Homegrown - may get a one year extention or may retire
Ade Gardner 2013 Homegrown - imagine would retire or be replaced by makinson or foster
Michael Shenton 2013 - Same Federation - at the moment may not get another contract if josh jones holds his own
Sia Soliola 2012 Overseas Quota Overseas trained - it's probably up to Sia
Francis Meli 2012 Exempt from quota - to retire
Josh Perry 2013 - Overseas quota Overseas trained - to retire
Tony Puletua 2013 Overseas quota Overseas trained - i'd imagine he'll retire given that he was not sure last time
Chris Flannery 2012 Exempt from quota - retired
Anthony Laffranchi - 2013 Overseas Trained (option of further year) - ?
Mark Flanagan - 2013 Same federation - ?
Paul Clough 2012 Homegrown - I'd say probably will move but not an expert
Shaun Magennis 2013 Homegrown - Again not sure if he is a keeper
Andrew Dixon 2012 Homegrown - had a few good games but is now out of favour I'll go with a 2 year extention

So we are going to lose a 2nd rower in flannery, probably meli and maybe clough.

We have alot of 2nd row cover, so can't see like for like replacements. Can't see us buying a winger, will probably fill from within.

So there will be money for a centre and maybe 2 props. But and it's a big but. Lance and Lomax are signed till 2015 so unless one of them is going to take another position such as fullback, I can't see us purchasing another halfback.

Re: Nathan Brown's list of priorities : Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:59 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

Gaskell, who we must remember has yet to physically mature, already possesses as great a leg strength as any halfback I've seen hammer a ball in SL. That kind of ability you just can't put a price on (think of the enormous disadvantage we had with Long who couldn't get the ball beyond 40m which meant we were giving up anywhere up to 15 yards per game on every set of six!). Yes, he does have problems directing the ball but that all comes with experience.

His short game is also very good and we pick up a lot of tries because of it. Where Lee is currently struggling is with his intermediate kicking (30 - 45 yards) but again, this is more an issue of wisdom and knowledge as opposed to innate talent.

Every rugby league pitch is different and it takes time to first identify the various eccentricities of camber and then adapt one's kicking to capitalise on such. And let us not forget that Gaskell is currently at an enormous disadvantage to other SL halves in that he doesn't have a home pitch he can make hay on because Langtree Park, for the moment, is as foreign to him as any other ground.

Again, the problem here is not ability - it's experience and coaching. Under the right tutelage and physically mature Gaskell has the talent to be as good as any halfback in SL - including Brough.

I'm a big fan of Gaskell, and I can also see the reasoning as to why we need an experienced half with a youngster too.

But the way we have recruited does not hold much hope for Gaskell as Lance and Lomax are signed to 2015 and so one would have to move to let him back in.

However Brown does move people about and had no issue pushing Brough into a well oiled side.

If you asked me my ideal future line up.

FB: Lomax
Wing: Makinson
Centre: Wheeler
Centre: New purchase or New academy player
Wing: Foster (if he can get his game back to 18 months ago) New Purchase or New Academy player
SO: Gaskell
SH: New experienced half
Prop: New prop
Hooker: Roby
Prop: New Prop
SR: Sia
SR: La Franki
LF: New signing (preferably a ball playing loose)

After this starting 13 I would want
TP to stay
Dixon
maybe megennis

The rest would need to be new recruits or academy players. But you can see this ideal world has no real place for some big money players already on the books long term.

Re: Nathan Brown's list of priorities : Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:39 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

These are the options that brown has over the next 2 years. Although the Sia option will probably be decided before he gets here. In fact alot of contracts this year will need to be decided before he gets here. So the current set up will need to make those decisions or we will not have enough time come October to sign anyone as other teams will have made their move.

Which raises the question - WHO will make the decisions on what are some extremely important contract decisions the ramifications of which will go a long way toward decided Saint's fortunes in the next three to five years? Mike Rush & Cunningham? Two rookies with no proven coaching experience at the top level? McManus himself (not a coach)? Or will McManus ask Brown for some input? Technically speaking Huddersfield have every right to demand that Brown in no way offers aid to Saints until after his contract expires as it could affect Huddersfield's fortunes in the future (especially if Brown fancies bringing one or two players with him).

But I can't see that McManus has any choice but to approach Brown in some way? Likewise, I can't see that Brown has any choice but to offer input (unless he is a man of very rare ethical principles indeed) as he runs the risk of seeing his big opportunity at Saints jeopardised by recruitment choices outside of his control that he has grave objections over.

We really are in a pickle here and unless we make the right choices this season it may be a long time before we are challenging for the big toys again.

Re: Nathan Brown's list of priorities : Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:01 am  

Mugwump wrote:

Which raises the question - WHO will make the decisions on what are some extremely important contract decisions the ramifications of which will go a long way toward decided Saint's fortunes in the next three to five years? Mike Rush & Cunningham? Two rookies with no proven coaching experience at the top level? McManus himself (not a coach)? Or will McManus ask Brown for some input? Technically speaking Huddersfield have every right to demand that Brown in no way offers aid to Saints until after his contract expires as it could affect Huddersfield's fortunes in the future (especially if Brown fancies bringing one or two players with him).

But I can't see that McManus has any choice but to approach Brown in some way? Likewise, I can't see that Brown has any choice but to offer input (unless he is a man of very rare ethical principles indeed) as he runs the risk of seeing his big opportunity at Saints jeopardised by recruitment choices outside of his control that he has grave objections over.

We really are in a pickle here and unless we make the right choices this season it may be a long time before we are challenging for the big toys again.

I would imagine the current set up will make the initial decision over retaining staff. There is more to the coaching team than just Rush and Cunningham. But they will have the best view of who is a keeper. They have made decisions already which lead to the changes for Leeds.

I would imagine this year it's pretty simple in terms of retention as most decisions will be made by the players. The difficult one would be Wellens. He has had a good recent run of form, so we'll have to see how the season progresses, but at some point a new FB has to be blooded. I've no idea how it works in other season's ie Anderson to Potter/ Potter to Royce.

But I would think Brown will have some input even if it's just a yeh I'll go along with that or no I certainly don't want to retain him.

Sia will be a choice only Sia can make, I would imagine everyone wants him to stay , current and future coaches, if he goes it opens up an overseas spot and that would have to be discussed as to who in what spot.

Re: Nathan Brown's list of priorities : Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:23 am  

We have a lot of positions becoming vacant over the next 2 years and not an awful lot of available quality to be able to bring in to fill them. We're not going to have much choice but to promote as many as possible from within to fill those positions. The good news is that we have plenty of good backs coming through, but rather fewer forwards and still no sign of a #7. For me all our available overseas signings are going to have to be allocated to props and (if available) a #7 over the next few seasons, and the 3/4 line will have to make do with what comes through from the youth team. It looks to be a tremendous **** up at the moment that we have Hohaia eating up one of those overseas spots for the forseeable future - he's no doubt a good player and will become more than useful for Saints, but is a player that we already have good homegrown alternatives to (even if they mostly lack experience) at a time when we have glaring weaknesses in other areas that need filling as a priority instead. Interesting times ahead, but I prefer to think we'll be 'reet.

Re: Nathan Brown's list of priorities : Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:33 am  

I would like to see Gaskell playing centre in the reserves, as he bulks up over the next couple of years, he could do a really good job out there. He could also be brought infield for the 5th 6th tackle kicking option. He certainly has the speed to play there, a good step and good brain. Otherwise, he may be wasted waiting for his chance in the halfs with hohaia blocking a spot for years to come.

I like lance, think he's worked really hard all season, and had a top game against Leeds. But with limited opportunities to bring in overseas players, his signing really does look short sighted.

Re: Nathan Brown's list of priorities : Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:40 am  

Fatbelly wrote:

1. Sean Long
2. Jamie Lyon
2. James Graham

I've no doubt we'd be the best team in super league by a long way if we had them players.

I honestly think we'd be a massive force again of we had a Danny brough, finch or Scott duroux (sp) as its just so clear that's what we are in urgent need of.

I do think we need another prop, I do think we need a attacking centre but the halfback is the one we need urgent.

Re: Nathan Brown's list of priorities : Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:54 am  

Mugwump wrote:

Which raises the question - WHO will make the decisions on what are some extremely important contract decisions the ramifications of which will go a long way toward decided Saint's fortunes in the next three to five years? Mike Rush & Cunningham? Two rookies with no proven coaching experience at the top level? McManus himself (not a coach)? Or will McManus ask Brown for some input? Technically speaking Huddersfield have every right to demand that Brown in no way offers aid to Saints until after his contract expires as it could affect Huddersfield's fortunes in the future (especially if Brown fancies bringing one or two players with him).

But I can't see that McManus has any choice but to approach Brown in some way? Likewise, I can't see that Brown has any choice but to offer input (unless he is a man of very rare ethical principles indeed) as he runs the risk of seeing his big opportunity at Saints jeopardised by recruitment choices outside of his control that he has grave objections over.

We really are in a pickle here and unless we make the right choices this season it may be a long time before we are challenging for the big toys again.

We are in a pickle and glad to see someone else has finally reliased that the recruitment of last year will set us back years. Ive been banging on about it since the start of super league and I think Brown has got one hell of a job on his hands.

We will be losing flannery and Meli (unless Brown keeps him) so that's two players we need to replace, we are in dire need of a halfback which means we need at least three players with no quota spaces and no money to buy players.

We could also do with a centre and prop but that IMO will have to wait as the halfback postion needs sorting big time or we can forget about being in the big time.

The excuse saints made last year when they signed hohaia was laughable when they said the was no halfbacks available in world rugby league and then sign a fullback to play in the halves and give him a four year deal!!!!

We are stuck with the overseas quota being full and lack of talent being available in this country so I honestly think brown will have to go with the current squad minus flannery and Meli. I wouldn't be surprised now if Meli got another year.

The signing of lance (not a bad signing) was panic and short sighted and as you say, left us in a pickle.

Re: Nathan Brown's list of priorities : Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:45 am  

His number 1 priority should be his own job because i personally dont think he will last 3 years.The 1st year he came over here you saints fans slatted him with his defence technique and how it slowed the play down.HE WILL GET THE SACK AT SOME POINT

Re: Nathan Brown's list of priorities : Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:51 am  

chip wrote:

His number 1 priority should be his own job because i personally dont think he will last 3 years.The 1st year he came over here you saints fans slatted him with his defence technique and how it slowed the play down.HE WILL GET THE SACK AT SOME POINT

We're not like wigan were a few years ago, sacking coaches if we only get to 2nd in the league!