Re: Sorry to say it, but how good do Wigan look? : Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:30 pm  

Back on topic re: Wigan.

They have looked pretty tasty, but it was against two of SL's weaker teams. They came up short against Huddersfield and got over a very poor Leeds the week before the WCC.

I'm not terrified yet. Wire and Wigan both look very good, but then I'd argue they are more settled in key positions than we are. They both looked far better than us at the start of last year too, but we made the GF and neither Wigan nor Wire did.

No need to panic, IMO we have enough quality to mount a serious challenge for both CC and SL.

Fair play to Wigan/Wire (and Hudds) though - all playing good RL.

Re: Sorry to say it, but how good do Wigan look? : Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:34 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

For the majority of teams they have far more point for far longer than they ever used to.

For some teams (the 3 or 4 mid-table nonentity teams that will be battling for 7th, 8th and 9th) that may well be the case. But why is there a justification for making the season artificially meaningful and exciting for the mid-table dross? Those teams/clubs do not deserve any more than mid-table mediocrity and yet you are happy to see them given the same completely undeserved and unearned lifeline to the goody bag as the worthy teams at the end of the season? Where is the sense in that? Where is the sense in any club trying for excellence when you can achieve exactly the same with mediocrity now?

The natural order of things is that the good teams should fight it out for the trophies all season, the bad teams should fight it out for survival all season, and the mediocre teams should have, well, mediocrity all season. The current playoff system skews this all preposterously making the whole thing vapid and stupid.

Here endeth the lesson.

Re: Sorry to say it, but how good do Wigan look? : Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:29 pm  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

For some teams (the 3 or 4 mid-table nonentity teams that will be battling for 7th, 8th and 9th) that may well be the case. But why is there a justification for making the season artificially meaningful and exciting for the mid-table dross? Those teams/clubs do not deserve any more than mid-table mediocrity and yet you are happy to see them given the same completely undeserved and unearned lifeline to the goody bag as the worthy teams at the end of the season? Where is the sense in that? Where is the sense in any club trying for excellence when you can achieve exactly the same with mediocrity now?

The natural order of things is that the good teams should fight it out for the trophies all season, the bad teams should fight it out for survival all season, and the mediocre teams should have, well, mediocrity all season. The current playoff system skews this all preposterously making the whole thing vapid and stupid.

Here endeth the lesson.

No lesson - you said games are pointless, I'm glad you now agree that they are clearly not.

And yet despite all these "pointless" games, crowds have been going up. Strange eh?

Re: Sorry to say it, but how good do Wigan look? : Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:04 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

No lesson - you said games are pointless, I'm glad you now agree that they are clearly not.

And yet despite all these "pointless" games, crowds have been going up. Strange eh?

I see... So arguing pointless, petty semantics is all you have then, huh?

For (probably) Bradford, Hull KR, Salford & Hull fans league games are not pointless. But I don't care about ****ing Bradford, Hull KR, Salford & Hull.... I only care about Saints... I am a Saints fan, on a Saints board, debating things relevant to Saints. Saints games are all utterly pointless. That is the point that is unarguable, and all I care about, and all I am here to discuss. That is the point I have made and which is 100% true and is the case.

Must try harder. D-. See me.

Or rather don't actually if you don't mind...

Re: Sorry to say it, but how good do Wigan look? : Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:18 pm  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

For some teams (the 3 or 4 mid-table nonentity teams that will be battling for 7th, 8th and 9th) that may well be the case. But why is there a justification for making the season artificially meaningful and exciting for the mid-table dross? Those teams/clubs do not deserve any more than mid-table mediocrity and yet you are happy to see them given the same completely undeserved and unearned lifeline to the goody bag as the worthy teams at the end of the season? Where is the sense in that? Where is the sense in any club trying for excellence when you can achieve exactly the same with mediocrity now?

The natural order of things is that the good teams should fight it out for the trophies all season, the bad teams should fight it out for survival all season, and the mediocre teams should have, well, mediocrity all season. The current playoff system skews this all preposterously making the whole thing vapid and stupid.

Here endeth the lesson.

What do you care about Saints you only go to finals and against wigan

Lets go back to the 80's and see 1-2 teams winning everything and watch the crowds disappear? utter bollax NS

Re: Sorry to say it, but how good do Wigan look? : Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:24 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

Back on topic re: Wigan.

They have looked pretty tasty, but it was against two of SL's weaker teams. They came up short against Huddersfield and got over a very poor Leeds the week before the WCC.

I'm not terrified yet. Wire and Wigan both look very good, but then I'd argue they are more settled in key positions than we are. They both looked far better than us at the start of last year too, but we made the GF and neither Wigan nor Wire did.

No need to panic, IMO we have enough quality to mount a serious challenge for both CC and SL.

Fair play to Wigan/Wire (and Hudds) though - all playing good RL.

Don't forget, we've played what's deemed as lower ranked teams in London, Salford, hull kr and Catalan who are a good team but you'd expect 8 points from that with some points on the board as well.

Wigan look head and shoulders at the moment and if we was to play this week I'd have no doubt they would put 50 points on us.

Wigan are bigger, faster, better coached and very well drilled team.

Re: Sorry to say it, but how good do Wigan look? : Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:29 pm  

St pete wrote:

Don't forget, we've played what's deemed as lower ranked teams in London, Salford, hull kr and Catalan who are a good team but you'd expect 8 points from that with some points on the board as well.

Wigan look head and shoulders at the moment and if we was to play this week I'd have no doubt they would put 50 points on us.

Wigan are bigger, faster, better coached and very well drilled team.

People said all this last season and apart from one game at Widnes every single game between the teams were close. 2 we won and we could've won 2 others with a bit more luck.

Saints need to up their game but I've no doubt we will as the season goes on and we adapt to the loss of Graham.

Wigan may look good right now but it means bugger all at this stage.

Re: Sorry to say it, but how good do Wigan look? : Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:35 pm  

Blobbynator wrote:

People said all this last season and apart from one game at Widnes every single game between the teams were close. 2 we won and we could've won 2 others with a bit more luck.

Saints need to up their game but I've no doubt we will as the season goes on and we adapt to the loss of Graham.

Wigan may look good right now but it means bugger all at this stage.

It's just the mess we look at the moment that worries me and the methods Royce uses.

I just think we are in for the worst season we've had since super league started.

Re: Sorry to say it, but how good do Wigan look? : Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:59 pm  

St pete wrote:

It's just the mess we look at the moment that worries me and the methods Royce uses.

I just think we are in for the worst season we've had since super league started.

Who knows what will happen, but we looked worse last year. We were in a right mess after the Wire & Quins 'home' games but came good in the end.

I still think Royce is finding his best side which has led to lots of rotation and errors from the side.

Re: Sorry to say it, but how good do Wigan look? : Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:11 pm  

Rommel wrote:

What do you care about Saints you only go to finals and against wigan

Lets go back to the 80's and see 1-2 teams winning everything and watch the crowds disappear? utter bollax NS

You're absolutely right - instead, let's have a season where the first 85% of it counts for absolutely nothing at all whatsoever, and then decide the champions on what is basically a lucky dip basis so that everyone, including all the completely pointless nonentity teams, has a completely artificially manufactured chance of winning it instead. That's a far better way of keeping the punters interested all season and then deciding who the "champion" team is, isn't it?

Why not let's just go the whole hog and have all 14 teams run onto the pitch at Old Trafford and then award the trophy on the basis of an arm-wrestling or chess competition between them all? Everyone has something to cheer the entire season, including the final itself, then don't they? Utter genius!!!

God, give me strength....