Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:42 pm  

So all in all it could be worse for us. Our chums over the hill are losing there talismanic coach , union look like they are trying to snare the Tomkins sisters (lifelong wigan fans apart from when they were warrington fans) and lulu's making noises about going off to the NRL too at the end of next season.

Ah well - If they want to bog off to union there isnt a great deal anyone can do about it other than force them to see out there contract which would be counter productive.

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:47 pm  

I've said for many years that the Aussies don't give a flying fek about the International game, just the State of Origin.

I wanted us to send our best academy players, young coaches, administrators etc over there to learn their trades from the best. We need their help but I can't see it happening until sadly it's too late.

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:50 pm  

saint at wire wrote:

Don't follow your logic - if they want our players now they just come and get them anyway. Very few (robes) turn them down.
The only difference is that they will have a lot more money but as you say, they will raid RU in Oz & NZ so there will be even fewer places available for UK RFL players.

Surely the standard of the NRL players overall will go up so even fewer of our homegrown player will make the "grade" in the opinion of the NRL.
As far as I'm aware they are not going to expand the no of NRL teams so there is only a finite/limited no of NRL squad places so why they would want more english players than now is beyond me.

It's just as likely that the RU imports will squeeze out some of the weaker aussie players and we will end up with more second rate aussies than we have now.

We won't be able to attract the likes of JL anymore.
More Flanno anyone?

There are well developed plans to expand the NRL. The new TV deal will create further impetus from people wishing to invest in RL down under.
Already bids have been expressed from amongst others Perth, Papua New Guinea and Wellington in NZ.
These are not the micky mouse bids that we see in RL, but fully realised multi million pound projects backed by real money.
They know that the NRL is a goldmine and they wish to mine it.

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:52 pm  

No1 Saint wrote:

So all in all it could be worse for us. Our chums over the hill are losing there talismanic coach , union look like they are trying to snare the Tomkins sisters (lifelong wigan fans apart from when they were warrington fans) and lulu's making noises about going off to the NRL too at the end of next season.

Ah well - If they want to bog off to union there isnt a great deal anyone can do about it other than force them to see out there contract which would be counter productive.

And sadly that is the thoughts of many RL "fans" who can't see the wood for the trees. It doesn't surprise me that you were one of them.

I was surprised however by very good discussion on Red Vee and fair play to those who appear to look at the bigger picture.

Just finally will you be attending any of the International games?

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:59 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

And sadly that is the thoughts of many RL "fans" who can't see the wood for the trees. It doesn't surprise me that you were one of them.

Typical of you to resort to personal insult.

He was stating the bleeding obvious. If a player wants to cross codes or go to the NRL there is bugger all we can do about it.

However, since you are constantly harping on about how fabulous your u20s side is, should Tomkins be off to Union then I'm sure you have an equally talented replacement for him already lined up.

One man's departure is another's opportunity.

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:03 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

And sadly that is the thoughts of many RL "fans" who can't see the wood for the trees. It doesn't surprise me that you were one of them.

I was surprised however by very good discussion on Red Vee and fair play to those who appear to look at the bigger picture.

Just finally will you be attending any of the International games?

I will indeed (and supporting England and EVERY player in an England shirt - even though it should be a GB shirt) and you may also notice if you look at what I've written nowhere do I state I'm happy to be losing players to Union. From a Saints point of view I dont care but from an international point of view S Tomkins would be a loss (as was Eastmond).

Also like I said , not sure wigan could do much to stop them leaving if they set their minds on it and I would be against allowing any team to break the cap to keep a player in these current times of fiscal hardship.

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:07 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Typical of you to resort to personal insult.

He was stating the bleeding obvious. If a player wants to cross codes or go to the NRL there is bugger all we can do about it.

However, since you are constantly harping on about how fabulous your u20s side is, should Tomkins be off to Union then I'm sure you have an equally talented replacement for him already lined up.

One man's departure is another's opportunity.

You should know by now Rogues just reads what he wants too and makes the rest up. Am I sad wigan may end up in turmoil? Nope not one bit, would I be sad if RL lost a talent like the Rat? yes I would. If he wants of of his 'Wigan wonder land' I'd have him at Saints , we could straighten out his niggly side and we'd have a top class player on our hands to replace Wello

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:13 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

There is only one way to hamper union. It is rather simple and wouldn't cost any money. But it is controversial and it would kill the international game.

Change the rules.

League has become a victim of its players utility. Over thirty years we have completely de-skilled the game. Where once there were specialist positions which took years to learn there are now simply slots into which players can be arranged and re-arranged. A player can be at fullback one week, centre the week after and scrum half the week after that.

But whilst multi-skilled players who can move smoothly between positions makes for attractive rugby (or at least it should do) - it also means they can move smoothly between sports. The Union guys must be laughing their heads off. We've made it EASY for them to pick and choose the best league talent. I mean, there was a time when they'd only take wingers. Anyone else simply couldn't adapt. Now they are taking second row forwards! The only position left is prop.

If we cannot find the money to fight them we must bite the bullet and introduce specialization. I'm not saying it will prevent Union from calling - but it will make things difficult.

Unfortunately, I can't see the Australians coming along for the ride. Why should they when their game is strong? Which means the end of international rugby.

It's a tough choice but our backs are firmly against the wall.

What sort of specialisation would you want?
Scrummaging, union would love that.
Maybe adopt the NFL and have defence and offensive teams, but then the individual wages of a 50 man squad would be pitiful as no RL team could afford to pay big bucks to so many players They struggle to pay the current 25 man squads more than an average of around £45k per player a year. With 50 man squads we would be down to £20k part time players again.

Our backs are not against the wall. RL is in the ascendant and RU knows it. The NRL was for years a drugged up, chained 800 pound Gorilla, however it's now gone cold turkey and broken free from its News Limited shackles. It financial muscle will dominate the Southern Hemisphere and indeed world rugby of both codes.
All that RU can hope for is that its rich Northern Hemisphere cousins at Twickers HQ, can win a few skirmishes against the embattled Northern RL fortress.
However they know that we have survived and indeed prospered for over 100 years despite their best efforts to destroy us. All the while the RFU waste money and effort picking off the odd player in a game of cat and mouse up north, the Aussies will be building an indomitable RL empire.

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:26 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

Our backs are not against the wall. RL is in the ascendant and RU knows it. The NRL was for years a drugged up, chained 800 pound Gorilla, however it's now gone cold turkey and broken free from its News Limited shackles. It financial muscle will dominate the Southern Hemisphere and indeed world rugby of both codes.
All that RU can hope for is that its rich Northern Hemisphere cousins at Twickers HQ, can win a few skirmishes against the embattled Northern RL fortress.
However they know that we have survived and indeed prospered for over 100 years despite their best efforts to destroy us. All the while the RFU waste money and effort picking off the odd player in a game of cat and mouse up north, the Aussies will be building an indomitable RL empire.

Re: Union about to come knocking at the door : Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:31 pm  

saint at wire wrote:Don't follow your logic - if they want our players now they just come and get them anyway. Very few (robes) turn them down. The only difference is that they will have a lot more money but as you say, they will raid RU in Oz & NZ so there will be even fewer places available for UK RFL players. Surely the standard of the NRL players overall will go up so even fewer of our homegrown player will make the "grade" in the opinion of the NRL. As far as I'm aware they are not going to expand the no of NRL teams so there is only a finite/limited no of NRL squad places so why they would want more english players than now is beyond me. It's just as likely that the RU imports will squeeze out some of the weaker aussie players and we will end up with more second rate aussies than we have now. We won't be able to attract the likes of JL anymore. More Flanno anyone? The Chair Maker wrote: There are well developed plans to expand the NRL. The new TV deal will create further impetus from people wishing to invest in RL down under. Already bids have been expressed from amongst others Perth, Papua New Guinea and Wellington in NZ. These are not the micky mouse bids that we see in RL, but fully realised multi million pound projects backed by real money. They know that the NRL is a goldmine and they wish to mine it. Not really true as far as I can see in the near future. http://www.theroar.com.au/2011/06/20/nrl-expansion-plans-on-hold-until-2015/ Even if they go to 18 teams in 2015, that doesn't represent a massive increase in demand or influx of UK players when the best of southern hemisphere yawnion talent will be on the NRL doorstep and ripe for picking. The point is; if they don't want our most of our decent players now; why would they want them when they have stacks of money and only two extra teams' squads at most to fill up? All it really means is that we will get an even inferior quality of second rate aussies over here. If our coaches have enough sense (debatable), they should see the opportunity to develop and use home grown talent instead of relying on inferior quality imports. God, I'm sounding like Gary Schofield now - shoot me!

saint at wire wrote:Don't follow your logic - if they want our players now they just come and get them anyway. Very few (robes) turn them down. The only difference is that they will have a lot more money but as you say, they will raid RU in Oz & NZ so there will be even fewer places available for UK RFL players. Surely the standard of the NRL players overall will go up so even fewer of our homegrown player will make the "grade" in the opinion of the NRL. As far as I'm aware they are not going to expand the no of NRL teams so there is only a finite/limited no of NRL squad places so why they would want more english players than now is beyond me. It's just as likely that the RU imports will squeeze out some of the weaker aussie players and we will end up with more second rate aussies than we have now. We won't be able to attract the likes of JL anymore. More Flanno anyone? The Chair Maker wrote: There are well developed plans to expand the NRL. The new TV deal will create further impetus from people wishing to invest in RL down under. Already bids have been expressed from amongst others Perth, Papua New Guinea and Wellington in NZ. These are not the micky mouse bids that we see in RL, but fully realised multi million pound projects backed by real money. They know that the NRL is a goldmine and they wish to mine it. Not really true as far as I can see in the near future. http://www.theroar.com.au/2011/06/20/nrl-expansion-plans-on-hold-until-2015/ Even if they go to 18 teams in 2015, that doesn't represent a massive increase in demand or influx of UK players when the best of southern hemisphere yawnion talent will be on the NRL doorstep and ripe for picking. The point is; if they don't want our most of our decent players now; why would they want them when they have stacks of money and only two extra teams' squads at most to fill up? All it really means is that we will get an even inferior quality of second rate aussies over here. If our coaches have enough sense (debatable), they should see the opportunity to develop and use home grown talent instead of relying on inferior quality imports. God, I'm sounding like Gary Schofield now - shoot me!