Re: captain next season : Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:50 am  

No1 Saint wrote:

:lol: I'm still not sure wello is the best fullback at the club but I do think young Ashe would benefit from a dual reg or loan to go prove himself as a first choice 1

Absolutely agree whole heartedly. Ashe looks to be the type of player he would go well at either a top Championship side or a lower SL side on dual reg, the experience would certainly do him the world of good.

Then he can come and rip it up for us after Wello's funeral has taken place.

Re: captain next season : Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:27 pm  

BackrowSaint wrote:

But he is still the best FB at the club, regardless of how old or slow he is. He is an absolute rock in our team, possible the most reliable player in SL and without him we would of conceded many more points this season. It would be daft to overlook him if he was available IMO.

Of course, I see your point in looking at Ashe as he's looked fairly good, but I don't think it warrants Wellens to be dropped from contention.

It's exactly the same situation as we had with Vievers. There comes a time in every player's career when we have to think of the future and that's happening now with Wellens. We held onto Vievers at full back too long and stagnated. We cannot have room for sentimentality over such a key position. He can remain a squad player but we need pace at full back (e.g. Chris Dean outpacing Wellens the other week). The full back position first changed when Minichello came through and Wellens was playing at full back then. Minichello revolutionised the position with his ability to use his pace to get himself into position to take the ball on the full going forward instead of chasing back to recover the ball. He negated kicking games whereas Wellens negating of kicking games has always been down to his ability to break tackles and that's something that happens rarely these days. So if he isn't giving us that what is he giving us besides defence close to the line?

The position has evolved even further with Billy Slater (who added a dazzling attacking game to go with the Minichello style ball retrieval) and you can see the impact such attacking full backs have had in the game and how that has moved over here e.g. Hodgson, Tomkins, Grix. Funnily enough those three players are in the teams that are directly above us and one of them is still performing at an age older than Wellens because he still has pace.

I understand the concept of having a player who is better to replace him and it's now time to either give one of the sprogs a chance or go out and get somebody who can do it for next season. The first person to usually touch the ball on our set of six is the full back so it stands to reason that we want to try and get as many yards on that first touch as possible. The game has changed and so must we.

Re: captain next season : Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:34 pm  

The kick return from the FB can be the most important touch in a set of six. That first touch if returned well is what puts teams on the front run.

Wello kick returns mostly end up as dead tackle as he's not beat the first man or put their defence on the back foot.

I love wello and still think he's the safest fullback in super league but we are missing a fullback who can give us a good kick return.

Maybe lance at fullback, Pryce and lomax at 6 & 7 next year with wello filling in the backrow or bench?

Re: captain next season : Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:35 am  

St pete wrote:

Maybe lance at fullback, Pryce and lomax at 6 & 7 next year with wello filling in the backrow or bench?

If we're going to change our fullback, I'd rather Ashe be drip fed into the position than put Hohaia there who - based on his comment about being 'forced to' play there - doesn't really want to play there. Besides, he's getting on as well.

Re: captain next season : Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:49 am  

But Wello

Re: captain next season : Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:23 pm  

St pete wrote:

The kick return from the FB can be the most important touch in a set of six. That first touch if returned well is what puts teams on the front run.

Wello kick returns mostly end up as dead tackle as he's not beat the first man or put their defence on the back foot.

I love wello and still think he's the safest fullback in super league but we are missing a fullback who can give us a good kick return.

Maybe lance at fullback, Pryce and lomax at 6 & 7 next year with wello filling in the backrow or bench?

I'm going to do a Pete here, when I have suggested that Pryce should not be played with Lance, that Lomax and/or Gaskell need to be given their chance, I've been told that we can't just throw youngsters in to fill every position.

Well here is a prime example, we've had a few lads try out at full back when Wellens has been injured and I don't think any of them have improved our fullback position either in attack or defence.
People tend to concentrate on the speed element, but when he is not there, do we improve as a team?

I'm not blind though he will need a replacement at some point, I would have thought 1 more season. Lance and Lomax at half back next year, with Gaskell providing cover with Wheeler. Then if Wheeler or Gaskell make a case for the half back role, the following year, Lance to move to fullback with Gaskell or Wheeler moving to half back with Lomax. However if Gaskell or Wheeler don't step up to take on a half back role, Saints to go shopping for another halfback in a years time.

I would be surprised to see Pryce stay next year, but if he did, he is one player who has covered the fullback role in Wellens absense and proved to be a quality replacement. So if the coach does move the team around a bit maybe Pryce to fullback, which would allow him to keep up his playmaker role in attack and give us some speed on kick returns.


Just a thought???

Re: captain next season : Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:27 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

I would be surprised to see Pryce stay next year, but if he did, he is one player who has covered the fullback role in Wellens absense and proved to be a quality replacement. So if the coach does move the team around a bit maybe Pryce to fullback, which would allow him to keep up his playmaker role in attack and give us some speed on kick returns.


Just a thought???

If that happened I would imagine Pryce and Lance interchanging positions during the game.

Re: captain next season : Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:56 pm  

If Wellens isn't going to play full back, I don't really see the point in keeping him on. This idea people have about him playing in the back row is fairly underwhelming to me.

I expect Hohaia will fill in wherever our youngsters fall short. If Lomax and Gaskell continue to grow then that will be full back. I do not expect Pryce to stay past this season.

Re: captain next season : Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:13 pm  

I honestly do believe that if Gaskell and Lomax continue there great form until the end of the season they should be first chioce six and seven next season. Lance Hohaia should be at Full Back and Leon Pryce from what my sources say is on his way out. Therefore allthough Wello's starting position is increasingly under threat I do believe it would be crazy to let him leave the club alltogether. As someone has said in a post Wello could provide great cover at 1,3,4,7,11,12,13. Everybody needs a player who can play a multiple of positions in there squad. As for the Captain I do believe James Roby should be appointed skipper for 2012.

Re: captain next season : Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:17 pm  

foz11 wrote:

As for the Captain I do believe James Roby should be appointed skipper for 2012.

Nah. I'm getting to like Jon Wilkin for capitan.