Re: Soliola : Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:58 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

We brought through two who we let go: one to Cas and the other to Wakey. Not saying either were great, but we did actually bring them through. (That is if Johnson was a prop? I can't remember whether he was a prop or a second rower, now I think about it)

Over the years we've brought through lots of props that weren't very good. We have developed one in my memory who was genuine world class (leaving aside Andy Platt, who only gravitated toward prop later in his career). We have developed one(?) who was a step below - Forber. Which leaves us with the likes of Jon Harrison (who, strictly speaking, didn't come through the juniors - he was much older), Jon Neill (I'm stretching things here because he kind of went straight into the first team after coming from Cumbria) and, erm ...

I'm sure I've missed a couple of others - but even with them it's a pretty poor show in 20+ years. Dismal, in fact.

Re: Soliola : Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:20 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

Over the years we've brought through lots of props that weren't very good. We have developed one in my memory who was genuine world class (leaving aside Andy Platt, who only gravitated toward prop later in his career). We have developed one(?) who was a step below - Forber. Which leaves us with the likes of Jon Harrison (who, strictly speaking, didn't come through the juniors - he was much older), Jon Neill (I'm stretching things here because he kind of went straight into the first team after coming from Cumbria) and, erm ...

I'm sure I've missed a couple of others - but even with them it's a pretty poor show in 20+ years. Dismal, in fact.

We've got Graham and Clough, who I think will turn into a very, very good prop for Saints.

How many World Class players have we brought through in other positions? You're never going to simply breed a whole champion side, you have to compliment your home grown with players coming in, which at the moment we do well, signing qulaity like shenton and pryce, young english talent who can improve such as LMS and Wilkin and a couple of jonny foreigners like TP.

Re: Soliola : Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:08 pm  

How many world class props have GB produced as a whole. Our 1 or 2 does not look so limited when you think about it like that.

How many world class props from Warrington, Wigan, Hull, Leeds in the SL years. The count is low. I thought we were talking good props not world beaters. Even a club with the resources and money of Liverpool have only created 1 truely world class football player in the last 20 years.

Saints ain't doing that bad

Re: Soliola : Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:24 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

How many world class props have GB produced as a whole. Our 1 or 2 does not look so limited when you think about it like that.

How many world class props from Warrington, Wigan, Hull, Leeds in the SL years. The count is low. I thought we were talking good props not world beaters. Even a club with the resources and money of Liverpool have only created 1 truely world class football player in the last 20 years.

Saints ain't doing that bad

Which british props from the last 10-15 years do we class as really good?
Graham?
Morley?
Peacock?
Young Fielden?
O'Connor?
Anderson?
Fozzard?
McDermott?
Broadbent?
Sampson?
Harmon?

Re: Soliola : Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:44 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

Which british props from the last 10-15 years do we class as really good?
Graham?
Morley?
Peacock?
Young Fielden?
O'Connor?
Anderson?
Fozzard?
McDermott?
Broadbent?
Sampson?
Harmon?

Burgess

Re: Soliola : Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:47 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

We brought through two who we let go: one to Cas and the other to Wakey. Not saying either were great, but we did actually bring them through. (That is if Johnson was a prop? I can't remember whether he was a prop or a second rower, now I think about it)

Emmitt came from Warrington didn't he? We can hardly claim credit for him.

Re: Soliola : Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:14 pm  

Pickavance!

Re: Soliola : Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:26 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

Which british props from the last 10-15 years do we class as really good?
Graham?
Morley?
Peacock?
Young Fielden?
O'Connor?
Anderson?
Fozzard?
McDermott?
Broadbent?
Sampson?
Harmon?

Top 3 + Burgess for me. Anderson Mc Dermott maybe????


Emmit ok born Warrington, but never signed for them. If we go to that level under 18's, hardly any SL clubs have developed players most come through the amature clubs. So we can scratch off all our youngsters.

Emmit signed 2008 so 18 or 19. Thats about as much youth development as any pro or semi pro club does.

Re: Soliola : Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:39 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

How many world class props have GB produced as a whole. Our 1 or 2 does not look so limited when you think about it like that.

How many world class props from Warrington, Wigan, Hull, Leeds in the SL years. The count is low. I thought we were talking good props not world beaters. Even a club with the resources and money of Liverpool have only created 1 truely world class football player in the last 20 years.

Saints ain't doing that bad

The issue isn't whether we are producing world class props. It's that over the past 20 years we have struggled to produce props who've been able to fashion a lengthy career at the club and be above average.

In that respect - yes, we are doing pretty bad.

Re: Soliola : Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:06 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

A season of pretty much continuous play. Longer if not.

- but then its too late and the piggy bank has been emptied.