We lost 4 players and a few carried on with injuries, therefore we had no bench. Mose didn't get long enough rest periods and I think he was playing under instructions not to get involved in any energy wasting drives that can prolong his time on the pitch. Sometimes you need to sacrifice your own game for the good the the team.

But this is the Salford game stats thread. If the above is the case you shouldn't be commenting at all and stick to the threads of the games you attended

I didn't see the post where it said "for those who attended only". So your saying if you don't go any games, on holiday, ill or in work that you can't post on game threads or any threads regarding games ?





If so, the won't be much posting on this board. One of our mods lives in Yorkshire, are you saying he can't post on here?



Stats are there in black and white, I can see what the stats say, while they don't always show how the player actually played the is some aspects like carries which are there to see.

Yeah, they're in black and white but they don't speak to the impact or importance a player has in a game. Look at the stats for Luke Walsh. They are terrible. 13 tackles and 6 missed. Three errors. Next to no ground covered. What the stats don't say, for example, is that of the 13 tackles made two were absolute peaches of try savers with Evalds on the way to the line clear ahead. They don't say either that one of the errors was a failed interception which would have taken the game for us pretty much. Nor do the stats say what a crucial role Walsh played in organising the team, especially once we lost players to injury. They don't speak to the quality of his kicks in play. In spite of all the sentimental gush over Paul Wellens (who himself made 3 but missed 2 tackles), Luke Walsh was my MoM because without him we would have been headless chickens, especially once Wilkin had gone. Based on stats alone and on your adherence to them in spite of your obvious ignorance, you would claim Walsh was gash. And you would be making a real fool of yourself by doing so, although you're making a fool of yourself anyway.

I wonder if in previous seasons teams who were top at this stage were as disgruntled with their team as people on here are with saints at the moment!?

Been the odd game have we? So your on your high horse again.





Read my post! I said stats can be misleading but some such as carries are there for all to see. I hope you don't post on any away game threads as you only attend home games







It doesn't take a rugby league genius to see that 8 carries for a prop when we are down to 14 players is great. I don't need to see the game to see that's pretty poor when we need to dig deep and lost Ant Walker very early.

I'm never off my high horse. It's very comfortable up here.

The flip side being, knowing his team are down to 14, means he's aware enough not over exerting himself on 2 or 3 extra carries, and becoming a liability, either in defence or long periods on the bench, and thus reverts into "steady Eddie" mode, makes the tackles when needed and doesn't let his side down - as opposed to making 15 runs and being a target in defence as he's missing every other tackle...



It's a very linear logic to assume down on men = more runs by everyone. It's like assuming a body builder works out all day, so can run a marathon ... Masoe isn't and won't ever be a long minute metre eater prop like graham, and when he's played like that, his stats will drop, like they did early on when he played, and like this week. He gets too focused on conservation and playing his role "within the team" as opposed the role he naturally plays. Let him have the fall back of a subs bench (and the realisation he has to play and not rely on the other senior props) and we get games like Huddersfield, which is a good basis for him to build on.

Utter rubbish that!



You don't only take 8 drives when your down to 14 players. Why on earth would you save a player and ask him not to take the ball up when your in trenches? That's when players dig deep for each other and over exert themselves.



Worst excuse I've ever seen in my life.

Okay, let's suppose for a second he had doubled his count and taken it up 16 times, as opposed to 8. But his defensive stats take the hit for that and he misses 3 simple one on one tackles, all of which lead to tries. Final score 32-30.



I'd want him to work within the defensive line before the luxury of him taking the ball up... That's not an excuse, that's thinking about the team as a whole, how it operates, and how losing that much of the bench affects how different player play...

Why wouldn't we tell any of the other props to not do any work? Why just Mose?



Did they also tell him not to tackle as much as the other players?



Every forward who didn't get hurt and go off injured made more tackle?

The other prop on the field is Richards, who isn't an impact prop, and much more like a long minute meter eater (at least from what I've seen so far) - who will, for many years to come hopefully, be playing 60 minutes a match, and thus can operate as he would before the bench issues arose.



Mose on the other hand is an impact prop, who might of otherwise had 3 spells on the bench to recharge and recover, before returning for said impact. That wasn't an option, hence his game had to change. I would bet you a lot, he'd of been asked to do a lot more defensive work if he'd of been out on his feet owing to him taking more ball up.

Im constantly told he's not a impact prop tho?





So now he is a impact prop. What impact does he give us?





Wasn't a impact last week against hudds tho was he? Sure you was creaming over the big mins he put in.

I won't be convinced he's been a success this year as he's not, he's admitted it him self he's not been great. He also said he's still learning which I find weird in the fact he's 25, played in the NRL and played in World Cup for Samoa.



I'll give him time to settle (Walsh and Amor settled easy enough) but I'm pretty sure we've signed a pudding. I hope I'm wrong but I'm not holding my breath.

I don't think I said once he played big minutes vs Huddersfield - he played very well, and led our pack superbly (as the stats showed) but, he was subbed multiple times, and allowed to play his natural game.



He's about as much an impact prop as Alex walmsley is - given the two different opinions of Mose and Alex, their stats are pretty similar, yet no body complains about Alex's lack of impact.

Pete please use this post as reference to how Mose played. He was always available to take the ball but was used as a dummy runner a lot of the time. This is not his fault but the fault of the play-makers and their decision not to give him the ball.

I know you have, we all do

it's okay, we all take irrational dislikes to some players! Mine was Tony Stewart (and Stanley Gene from other teams)



25 is still incredibly young for a prop, and the same as Alex Walmsley, who also still has masses to learn. Having the self awareness that you need to do better is half the problem usually, so for him to come out and say he needs to do better, gives me confidence he will. Whether it's this year, I don't know - there are signs there, and he's certainly much better than when he started.



Also, settling takes different time for different types of players - it took Sia a year!

And the previous 10 games he played ?





It just irritates me how people can (including me) can call LMS this year but let Mose get off lightly. Also laffranchi was tore apart last season and Mose no better than him either.



The guy is huge and I mean mega huge! He's mobile for someone so big but can't break out of a paper bag. He doesn't or can't make one on one tackles, he always 3rd man.



Why would Mose make a statement about not playing well enough and underestimating super league if he's playing as well as some on here suggest?





Seems one of them players that don't get the stick for being poor because he's the happy go lucky big Samoan.

I don't dislike Mose one little bit. I like him and thought he'd be a great signing. I'm basing these posts on his on filed performances and I think it's only fair he takes the stick with the likes of LMS and Turner who he's on par with.





To be fair to sia, he had awful injuries in the first season and a half.

Just because I disagree with your continued complaints with him doesn't mean I think he was a top 3 player this week, or that there aren't improvement to be made with his game. In fact, I can agree with him that he has more to give, and disagree with you constantly having him in your crosshairs.



He was poor when he was unfit. He's got fitter, and looks better for it. He relied on others to do the work, he recognised that and put in a performance against Huddersfield. He could of done so again, had we not had so many injured (and was doing early doors so I'm told) - but couldn't play his natural game. That doesn't make him a terrible player. There have been signs that he will continue improving and kick on to be a force, it might be this year, it might be next. If were having the same argument at the end of next year, I'll concede your right. But he's also out of contract then, so well all more on...



That also doesn't mean his attitude is 1000x better than lms - who iirc has NEVER come out and said he needs to do better - nor have I seen him hide yet (struggle to keep up yes, hide no) - which is a big difference. I think people who call laffranchi out are wrong, and will argue the point on that as well.

He's made the same number of tackles and 200 metres and 20 carries less than walmsley over the course of the year so far. This is with no preseason (which yes, isn't an excuse for his performances now, but did when he was first coming into the team) - yet nobody compares Alex to turner and lms. So on field, he's not that far behind one of our players of the year so far (I chose Alex because they are similar style props) who only top trumps him by a long way in tackle busts (and that's because Alex is much better at isolating defenders, which isn't Moses game, who just runs straight and sucking 3/4 defenders in)



Turner has been in poor form, but recognises that (as Mose also has) - lms is another discussion for another day (and has given no recognition!)

I think some fans on here are now being over critical with the usual players of Wello, Wilkin, Turner, Mose, LMS. This Saints forum is getting more like the bitch fest of VT.

We have not been performing to the best of our ability through various reasons, injuries, attitutude, bad luck, individual form yet we are top of superleague and it looks as though we will finish in the top 4.

Perhaps we should avoid all this repetitive negativity on individual players.

Sorry mate but he isn't on par with LMS at all. Not wanting to go over what SaintsFan has been saying but you're making comments like this when you haven't seen his last couple of performances. To say he can't break out of a paper bag is nonsense and if you had seen his last couple of performances then you wouldn't be making comments like that.

We're starting to see glimpses of what Mose is capable of and he will only get better this year barring injuries. I just want to start seeing the big smile after a big hit or blockbusting run. I think we're not too far away.

How many times do I have to post this!



I've stated in my posts that I can only go on the games I've seen him and go off the stats I've seen on the two games Ive missed! I've stated this very clearly!



So under yours and her rules, people can only post on here if they went the games? If so, this board will be pretty empty. I also feel for the people who can't afford to go the games or can't get time off work as under yours and her rules can't post.



What does our mod (bewareofshadows) think who doesn't attend the games and often listens on the radio?