Re: The Wigan Envy-O-Meter. : Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:11 pm  

St pete wrote:

Could be very good signing if he stays fit. Add tatuia (sp), Patrick and Joel tomkins after a real pre-season and their pack looks much much stronger.

I think Wigan Defo the team to beat and only the lack of a replacement for Blake Green is the only weakness I see.

I can see their pack dominating ours again

I'm not so convinced. They have a lot of very good players, and their standard should remain pretty much at the same level regardless of injuries, but I'm not convinced their absolute best is much better than it was. We still have the potential to match them, but we can't afford injuries in the same way...

Not convinced Tomkins will ever reach the same level as threat as he once carried pre season or not

Re: The Wigan Envy-O-Meter. : Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:31 pm  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

I'm not so convinced. They have a lot of very good players, and their standard should remain pretty much at the same level regardless of injuries, but I'm not convinced their absolute best is much better than it was. We still have the potential to match them, but we can't afford injuries in the same way...

Not convinced Tomkins will ever reach the same level as threat as he once carried pre season or not

I think tomkins will go really well next year. The fact he played in the play offs, grand final and four nations will have helped him a great deal.

If their pack can dominate teams last season ( like it did) I'm sure the additions of mossop, Patrick and tatuia (sp) will make them a whole lot stronger. Stand off is going to be their problem.

Would you say our pack is stronger next year? I'd say no.

Re: The Wigan Envy-O-Meter. : Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:51 pm  

St pete wrote:

I think tomkins will go really well next year. The fact he played in the play offs, grand final and four nations will have helped him a great deal.

If their pack can dominate teams last season ( like it did) I'm sure the additions of mossop, Patrick and tatuia (sp) will make them a whole lot stronger. Stand off is going to be their problem.

Would you say our pack is stronger next year? I'd say no.

On the whole over the 3 games against us last year they didn't dominate us.

As for the packs for next year, I'd say our front row is stronger and their back row is stronger. Overall there isn't much in it.

Re: The Wigan Envy-O-Meter. : Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:02 pm  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

On the whole over the 3 games against us last year they didn't dominate us.

As for the packs for next year, I'd say our front row is stronger and their back row is stronger. Overall there isn't much in it.

Maybe they just have more aggressive players then but I'm always weary we will get dominated by Wigan. Maybe it's years of it happening.

Would you say our pack looks weaker for next season ?

Re: The Wigan Envy-O-Meter. : Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:08 pm  

St pete wrote:

Maybe they just have more aggressive players then but I'm always weary we will get dominated by Wigan. Maybe it's years of it happening.

Would you say our pack looks weaker for next season ?

Yeah I agree that up to the game at the DW they have been far more aggressive than us. I'd like to think that that was a turning point though as we matched them that day and in the GF in terms of aggression.

I've said for the last couple of months that I would have liked us to sign one more forward. Whilst I think Thompson could be very special indeed and Richards also looks promising, I still think we have lost a lot of experience from the pack with Manu, Laffranchi and Soliola leaving.

Re: The Wigan Envy-O-Meter. : Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:09 pm  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

Yeah I agree that up to the game at the DW they have been far more aggressive than us. I'd like to think that that was a turning point though as we matched them that day and in the GF in terms of aggression.

I've said for the last couple of months that I would have liked us to sign one more forward. Whilst I think Thompson could be very special indeed and Richards also looks promising, I still think we have lost a lot of experience from the pack with Manu, Laffranchi and Soliola leaving.

We need that 4th senior prop in order that LMS can stay in the back row. The effectiveness of our back row (and indeed whole pack) hinges on this.

Re: The Wigan Envy-O-Meter. : Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:12 pm  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

Yeah I agree that up to the game at the DW they have been far more aggressive than us. I'd like to think that that was a turning point though as we matched them that day and in the GF in terms of aggression.

I've said for the last couple of months that I would have liked us to sign one more forward. Whilst I think Thompson could be very special indeed and Richards also looks promising, I still think we have lost a lot of experience from the pack with Manu, Laffranchi and Soliola leaving.

I don't like to see three forwards leave and only one come in. We look short in the front row if Thompson and Richards don't turn up next year and let's not forget they only still very young for props so a extra prop IMO is needed big time.

Re: The Wigan Envy-O-Meter. : Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:21 pm  

I agree. It doesn't look like one will be coming in though.

Re: The Wigan Envy-O-Meter. : Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:31 pm  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

I agree. It doesn't look like one will be coming in though.

Depends on who becomes available between now and when we need someone. Would it be really so bad to start next season with virtually the same pack as we ended last? Vea replaces Manu and Soliola makes way for an interchange hooker.

We've lost a lot of depth (which to attempt to stay on topic is Wigans great strength this year) but that won't affect us unless there are injuries (we still have enough cover for loss of form imo) - but perhaps rather than guessing where the injuries will be, were holding back enough space to cover as an when they happen?

Re: The Wigan Envy-O-Meter. : Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:32 pm  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

On the whole over the 3 games against us last year they didn't dominate us.

As for the packs for next year, I'd say our front row is stronger and their back row is stronger. Overall there isn't much in it.

I think you're oversimplifying a little there YG, In the two games where you could argue you competed, Wigan were without around 9 first choice players and in the other played almost the entire match with just one prop. Even then your pack only started make metres in the last 20 mins or so as Wigan's pack, not unsurprisingly, tired. In the one truly representative game where both teams had a fair approximation of their first choice pack (and, tellingly, at a time Saints were playing their best rugby of the whole season) your pack was comprehensively outplayed. The 2015 Wigan pack looks much stronger with the additions of Mossop, Tautai and Patrick plus the return of Tomkins who, with a full pre-season and the experience of the GF and 4 nations under his belt, will add a lot to an already strong back row. Add the depth afforded by Greenwood (who showed up well in an outgunned London side last year) and, particularly, Sutton who looks a great prospect in his own right and that pack is without question much improved from 2014. Converseley, I think it's fair to say the Saints pack looks weaker. Soliola in particular is a major loss but also the loss of experience and, not least, depth could prove to be a problem for next year.