Re: Percival : Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:10 pm  

Dux wrote:

I definitely agree that a much earlier transfer deadline is needed - it should be well before it's clear who is going to be in the middle 8.

Even that would help, mate. I think the concept of the middle 8's is just brilliant but it has failed badly IMO. I know others disagree and that's fair enough but the difference in what you're allowed to spend on the SC and the reason you mention in the quote above as meant that it's not a level playing field. Maybe change the structure and make it a middle 6 or even a 4 and play each other twice.

Magic Superbeetle asked about whether getting in SL was the goal or being competitive. I'd ask whether fans are happy with Wakefield being incredibly poor for 20 odd rounds, losing nearly all the games staying up, whilst Leigh who are genuinely ambitious, along with Bradford winning nearly all of there's and being stuck in the Championship.

Leigh and Bradford IMO would be far far more competitive and ambitious than just taking a pummelling every week and buying a few stars before the middle 8's.

Re: Percival : Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:44 pm  

In regard to the crowds, I remember similar things being said about Leigh crowds being massive in SL before they came up last time. They weren't when they got there though, so I wouldn't presume that they would be if they got promoted again certainly not any bigger than any current SL team.

I think the issue with the middle 8's has been touched on here and also was stated by a Bradford fan I know prior to the season starting. The Championship teams have all had fairly easy games where they've been able to pick up bad habits and still win. The SL teams don't have that luxury, bad habits will be punished, so they've got a double advantage, bigger cap (meaning in theory better players) and also more battle hardened players in crunch games.

Re: Percival : Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:57 pm  

Twentyman wrote:

Magic Superbeetle asked about whether getting in SL was the goal or being competitive. I'd ask whether fans are happy with Wakefield being incredibly poor for 20 odd rounds, losing nearly all the games staying up, whilst Leigh who are genuinely ambitious, along with Bradford winning nearly all of there's and being stuck in the Championship.

What annoyed me was Wakefield signing up quite a few players prior to the middle 8's, all legal but doesn't seem right. Maybe the championship sides should be allowed extra spending powers prior to the middle 8's for the sake of parity.

Re: Percival : Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:42 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

What annoyed me was Wakefield signing up quite a few players prior to the middle 8's, all legal but doesn't seem right. Maybe the championship sides should be allowed extra spending powers prior to the middle 8's for the sake of parity.

They were and Leigh used them to the full. Wakefield signed a few, but they also released players previous to that.

Ultimately it comes down to the disparity of the system. The SL clubs in the middle 8s are allowed to spend more because of the fact they were in SL and not the Championship. They can't responsibly do anything about that as if you allow Championship clubs to spend more and they don't get promoted there is a real risk of bankruptcy, which would be twice in about three years for Leigh. (Beaumont is looking as likely to fail as Koukash)

The current 8s system is unfair on the Championship clubs. In reality it would take a ridiculously poor SL side to lose to a Championship side in that format.

But clubs like Leigh cannot moan about it as they campaigned for it and supported it when it was brought it in. They arrogantly believed they would walk it and haven't performed, even to the level of their peers. The best system is still franchising. That would reward the clubs with the best facilities, fan bases and league performances. Why they ever moved away from that is beyond me.

IMO SL should be:

2 x Expansion clubs (As they need protection as unfair to expect the same crowds etc as established clubs. London should IMO have been replaced by Toulouse a LONG time ago). If a London or Paris or Spanish or Italian franchise found a serious backer with a proper business plan and had community backing with long term potential for 10k crowds they should be allowed in)
8 x franchised clubs (And change them at a full seasons notice. The likes of Wakefield should not be in SL, no matter how you slice things. A franchising system now would remove them and add Leigh, without the need for them to spend irresponsibly. Now would have been the perfect time to remove Wakefield and Wigan as they don't own their own grounds. Wigan fans can't moan about that as they would have been relegated under the P&R system that year anyway, had they not cheated).

Long term Super League needs to go again. The Sky money unquestionably saved the sport, but it's now dying again. It needs to think bigger than a £1.6m cap, but can't currently without being irresponsible. It needs to get out there and sell itself. If a womens cricket Super league competition can attract bids for franchises of £2m per team per season (Mentioned on the radio recently) without any possibility of a paying crowd, why can't Super League attract some of the Indian, Chinese and Gulf money other sports seem to be able to?

Re: Percival : Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:08 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

They were and Leigh used them to the full. Wakefield signed a few, but they also released players previous to that.

Ultimately it comes down to the disparity of the system. The SL clubs in the middle 8s are allowed to spend more because of the fact they were in SL and not the Championship. They can't responsibly do anything about that as if you allow Championship clubs to spend more and they don't get promoted there is a real risk of bankruptcy, which would be twice in about three years for Leigh. (Beaumont is looking as likely to fail as Koukash)

The current 8s system is unfair on the Championship clubs. In reality it would take a ridiculously poor SL side to lose to a Championship side in that format.

But clubs like Leigh cannot moan about it as they campaigned for it and supported it when it was brought it in. They arrogantly believed they would walk it and haven't performed, even to the level of their peers. The best system is still franchising. That would reward the clubs with the best facilities, fan bases and league performances. Why they ever moved away from that is beyond me.

IMO SL should be:

2 x Expansion clubs (As they need protection as unfair to expect the same crowds etc as established clubs. London should IMO have been replaced by Toulouse a LONG time ago). If a London or Paris or Spanish or Italian franchise found a serious backer with a proper business plan and had community backing with long term potential for 10k crowds they should be allowed in)
8 x franchised clubs (And change them at a full seasons notice. The likes of Wakefield should not be in SL, no matter how you slice things. A franchising system now would remove them and add Leigh, without the need for them to spend irresponsibly. Now would have been the perfect time to remove Wakefield and Wigan as they don't own their own grounds. Wigan fans can't moan about that as they would have been relegated under the P&R system that year anyway, had they not cheated).

Long term Super League needs to go again. The Sky money unquestionably saved the sport, but it's now dying again. It needs to think bigger than a £1.6m cap, but can't currently without being irresponsible. It needs to get out there and sell itself. If a womens cricket Super league competition can attract bids for franchises of £2m per team per season (Mentioned on the radio recently) without any possibility of a paying crowd, why can't Super League attract some of the Indian, Chinese and Gulf money other sports seem to be able to?

Good post mate.

Can someone remind me of the negatives of relegation and promotion again?

Re: Percival : Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:54 pm  

Promotion and relegation will never happen again I don't think the rl have proved they don't like this as they can't control who goes up or comes down! As for the new system i think it is a good thing just needs tweaking! A club challenging for super league should be able too spend super league cap! It shouldn't matter too other teams wether Leigh can sustain it really! I'm all for risking it as there is plenty of reward! Id rather watch a team at the top level than a team stuck in the lower leagues playing kids

Re: Percival : Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:46 pm  

oggy123 wrote:

Promotion and relegation will never happen again I don't think the rl have proved they don't like this as they can't control who goes up or comes down! As for the new system i think it is a good thing just needs tweaking! A club challenging for super league should be able too spend super league cap! It shouldn't matter too other teams wether Leigh can sustain it really! I'm all for risking it as there is plenty of reward! Id rather watch a team at the top level than a team stuck in the lower leagues playing kids

When you say challenging for Super League every club will claim they are. I think it could work if a club will definitely qualify for the Middle 8s, so say there's 5 games left and Leigh are 11 points clear of 5th then yes they could spend up to the cap then if they could afford it. But with people wanting the deadline brought forward for signings then I doubt that this method would work.

Another way to try and bridge the gap would to use the funding a club receives for finishing wherever they do the previous season. Say you get £1m + whatever exemptions is the basic cap. But Leigh for finishing 6th in the middle 8s get 500k, Sheffield £450k for 7th (dont know the actual figures so random figure) they can use this on top of their cap if they can afford it to be used here. Obviously this wouldn't be able to occur for all clubs though. Say for example, Halifax are skint (no idea if they are) if they get the 500k if they can't afford it to spend it on players then they don't have to. So basically it would be at the clubs discretion on what they spend the staggered amounts on. But this would obviously mean there's no level playing field in the Championship as clubs would all be spending different amounts on the cap so would be harder for London etc to finish in the middle 8 positions.

Re: Percival : Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:57 am  

Judder Man wrote:

What annoyed me was Wakefield signing up quite a few players prior to the middle 8's.

Yes they did, but didn't Leigh bring in some big names as well after the start of the season?

Re: Percival : Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:07 am  

jaybs wrote:

Yes they did, but didn't Leigh bring in some big names as well after the start of the season?

This is what I actually said: What annoyed me was Wakefield signing up quite a few players prior to the middle 8's, all legal but doesn't seem right. You've edited my sentence by reducing its context for some reason.

Re: Percival : Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:20 pm  

Back to the original topic, young Percival is going nowhere and, as others have said looks to be a future international.

Just wish he was doing it with his hometown club.