Re: catalan stats/captain fantastic : Tue May 12, 2015 8:08 am  

Blobbynator wrote:

I've said on Red Vee previously that when everyone is fit we've got a real problem with Wilkin. Making him Captain makes him pretty much undroppable but in reality Vea and Greenwood start as our back rowers and LMS should play at loose. Thompson / Savelio would then be the back row option from the bench, which for me leaves Wilkin as 18th man.

It won't happen and he'll start but we have better options and having Wilkin start when all are fit will hinder us.

He's been a great servant for Saints over the years but he's on the downward curve now whilst some of our other options are getting better.

We can argue about whether Wilkin deserves a spot when Saints' full strength pack is available as much as we like. The point is practically academic since we are rarely in a position when we can select a full strength pack. Moreover, we've been seriously undermanned in other positions, most notably scrum half, where Wilkin hasn't just filled in - he's been among the best in the position.

I don't agree that Wilkin is on a downward slide. Perhaps he's not the out-and-out forward he once was - but across a broad range of important skills he's improved significantly over the last eighteen months.

Certainly in terms of tactical kicking he's improved out of sight. IMO, part of the reason Saints form has been so mixed over the last few weeks is that Wilkin has not been doing the kicking. Aside from a couple of well-executed grubbers by Walsh against Catalans neither he nor Travis Burns have been anywhere close as effective a kicker as Wilkin was in the first six or seven games.

Watch the videos again. At the start of the season Wilkin took up where we left off at the end of last season - four or five big forward drives and then pinpoint accuracy box kicks penning the opposition back into their own twenty - or better still forcing them to drop out. It worked beautifully and it played entirely to our team's strengths. The last thing our opponents want facing Saints' huge pack is to be forced to cart the ball out from their own goal line under heavy traffic. It's psychologically demoralising.

The moment Wilkin was injured our kicking game went to pot. Burns especially hasn't shown a tenth the leadership that Wilkin was doing early on. Lord knows how many times he's hesitated with the ball in hand on tackle five not knowing whether to stick or twist. Wilkin wasn't making such mistakes. He played the percentages beautifully - like an experienced, intelligent professional.

Sorry guys - he may have missed a few tackles against Catalans. But on the form he showed prior to getting injured he damn well deserves a bit of slack. And the sooner we put him back in charge of tactics the better.

Re: catalan stats/captain fantastic : Thu May 14, 2015 3:36 pm  

I've nothing against Wilkin personally, in fact in comparison to alot of people, you might call me a fan of Wilkin as he certainly takes some unfair stick amongst some of the people who sit around me at Langtree Park and some of my Saints supporting mates also. We badly missed him on Good Friday for example and may well have won that game with him in the halves.

As a back up half back I think he's done a great job in recent seasons and I've no doubt he'll step in a do a good job over the next 4 weeks in Walsh's absence despite his obvious erratic kicking at times (which is let off for me by the fact he isn't a natural half).

The recent problem I've had with Wilkin is he's been poor defensively and hasn't really had any impact as a wide running back rower which is his position. His discipline is also poor and has been poor this season. He averages a penalty conceded every single game and is the biggest culprit in the league this season. Given our injuries he's required at the moment certainly abocve the very average Flanagan, but when all our back rowers are fit we have a problem as we have better options, but Wilkin is the captain which makes him pretty much undroppable.

Re: catalan stats/captain fantastic : Fri May 15, 2015 3:43 am  

Blobbynator wrote:

I've nothing against Wilkin personally, in fact in comparison to alot of people, you might call me a fan of Wilkin as he certainly takes some unfair stick amongst some of the people who sit around me at Langtree Park and some of my Saints supporting mates also. We badly missed him on Good Friday for example and may well have won that game with him in the halves.

I think you might be right there. It wouldn't have taken a great deal of tactical nous to have improven our game significantly at Pie Palace.

As a back up half back I think he's done a great job in recent seasons and I've no doubt he'll step in a do a good job over the next 4 weeks in Walsh's absence despite his obvious erratic kicking at times (which is let off for me by the fact he isn't a natural half).

His kicking has certainly been erratic throughout his career as a whole. But I do think there has been a tremendous improvement over the last eighteen months. Cunningham has said that he worked extensively with Sean Long on his kicking throughout the off-season and I think this paid huge dividends early in the season up to his injury.

Like Long he doesn't possess a great deal of distance with his foot. But over forty yards he's extremely accurate. Given the size of our pack having a scrum-half who is able to kick the ball seventy yards is not necessary. Even against the most committed defences this season we've not struggled getting out of or close to our half.

Wilkin's accuracy, especially on his box kicks (pinning the opposition inside his own 20 close to the corner flag) was one of the stand-out features of our early play. But what I really like about Wilkin is his willingness to think outside the box and kick early (say on tackle three or four) when the wingers aren't back and the opposition ends up having to cart the ball back 70m into heavy traffic.

In the first six or seven games this season we kicked early on countless occasions. It broke the back of Warrington's highly-rated pack and Salford were demoralised by half time.

Since Wilkin's injury it seems as though we're always kicking on fifth tackle. Worse still - we're kicking BADLY on fifth tackle. Usually rushed with very little thought put into it.

I really do think Wilkin has a very good tactical appreciation of the game. He's a clever lad and I think this shows in his unconventional approach to kicking. Lord knows we've missed his input in this department over the last few weeks.

The recent problem I've had with Wilkin is he's been poor defensively and hasn't really had any impact as a wide running back rower which is his position. His discipline is also poor and has been poor this season. He averages a penalty conceded every single game and is the biggest culprit in the league this season. Given our injuries he's required at the moment certainly abocve the very average Flanagan, but when all our back rowers are fit we have a problem as we have better options, but Wilkin is the captain which makes him pretty much undroppable.

Well, Wilkin isn't big enough to function effectively as a wide-running back row. So it strikes me that your argument is somewhat akin to complaining about a cat not being a dog.

I take your point about him probably not warranting selection above other names in the back row when everyone is fit. But since everyone is rarely fit - I don't see a problem here, either.

The missed tackles issue is a cause for concern. To be honest, I've not really looked at his stats. And certainly not in the context of everyone else's. As for the penalties - you can take the lad out of Hull, but you can't take the Hull out of the lad...

Re: catalan stats/captain fantastic : Fri May 15, 2015 8:03 am  

They probably stopped kicking early in the count after they heard the whinging from the west stand every time they did it. I think Wilkin could morph into Darren Lockyer and he still wouldn't please a large section of our fans.

Re: catalan stats/captain fantastic : Fri May 15, 2015 3:25 pm  

JonB95 wrote:

They probably stopped kicking early in the count after they heard the whinging from the west stand every time they did it. I think Wilkin could morph into Darren Lockyer and he still wouldn't please a large section of our fans.

lol