Re: Reality check : Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:26 pm  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

this rule is currently in place in the championship:

This is the rule that can (and should of been by now) brought in that can at least start e tide. Tomkins and Graham are lost to us imo, what we need is to start the process to protect the next in the production line. That combined with slow, regular and planned cap increases will start to turn the tide, limits the risk to smaller clubs, and rewards clubs for producing talent as opposed to buying in.

Isn't that rule already in place for SL? I thought it was £100k for club trained in SL?
If not, then I agree it should certainly be brought in.

Re: Reality check : Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:27 pm  

It was lesson in Rugby League. Souths were untouchable.

Re: Reality check : Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:33 pm  

Nothus wrote:

Isn't that rule already in place for SL? I thought it was £100k for club trained in SL?
If not, then I agree it should certainly be brought in.

Nope. It was supposed to be, but clubs refused to vote it in for this year. I'm hoping to God the rfl don't let them dig their feet in too long and it's due to come in next year...

100k is also too high - should be 100k normally, 75k upon an England knight appearance and 60k after a full England cap.

That and a cap increase to £2m in 2016, and an agreement to increase it by ~100k per year for every year after that for 5 years is step 2

Re: Reality check : Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:12 am  

Stuff the Aussies and stuff their salary caps.

We beat Wigan in a Grand Final last year with a young side and then the aussie champs came over to play us in our new stadium, we sold out and we made some money out of it.

Re: Reality check : Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:00 am  

Come on, let's not get too down hearted. On the showing of Wigan and Warrington, there is not this gulf people are talking about between the SL and the NRL. Brisbane and St George will both fly back knowing they've been in a game as intense as their own league.

We know what rugby league is like sometimes. If one team doesn't do the basics right, and the other team gets it all right, then they will potentially pummel them.

Last season, Catalans tore us a new backside at their place. They turned up and we didn't. That 42-0 score line wasn't a reflection of the gulf between the two teams in general.

These things happen, it's not nice to be on the receiving end. It's just what happened on the night unfortunately. I guarantee South Sydney will have a few big defeats put on them this season because it's impossible to get it right in every game The lads will learn an awful lot from it.

Re: Reality check : Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:53 am  

Twentyman wrote:

Come on, let's not get too down hearted. On the showing of Wigan and Warrington, there is not this gulf people are talking about between the SL and the NRL. Brisbane and St George will both fly back knowing they've been in a game as intense as their own league.

We know what rugby league is like sometimes. If one team doesn't do the basics right, and the other team gets it all right, then they will potentially pummel them.

Last season, Catalans tore us a new backside at their place. They turned up and we didn't. That 42-0 score line wasn't a reflection of the gulf between the two teams in general.

These things happen, it's not nice to be on the receiving end. It's just what happened on the night unfortunately. I guarantee South Sydney will have a few big defeats put on them this season because it's impossible to get it right in every game The lads will learn an awful lot from it.

Good post. It was fine margins. We had identified our starts as a problem but we hadn't fixed the problem. We didn't have the personnel to recover. But we came so close to scoring twice (held up/dropped ball) - had just one of those stuck our confidence would have grown and things might have been different.

The Dogs conceded 30 points to Souths in the GF and they're in the same league. This was just a bad night for Saints, and disappointing for the fans not least IMO because I thought we now had a better defence than that!

Re: Reality check : Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:00 am  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

Right. I wasn't going to post tonight, because calming down is always advised. But I have to say something.

To me, the facts are these. Saints are currently set up to take on anyone in SL. The small 3/4 line is fine against 99% of opposition in SL and even when they're not we have enough size in the pack to conteract those who can beat us in that area. However, the physicality in the outside backs, snuffed any space we were able to create. We came close to matching them in the pack (I wouldn't go so far to say we matched their pack, but we did at least as well as Bulldogs did in the GF imo, which is no shoddy thing looking at their pack!) Percival would have scored both against SL opposition and in 3 years will score similar chances.

It's very easy to throw the baby out of the pram in these situations. I'm sure in the coming days opposition fans will love to stick the boot in, but no one in this league would of done any better. They might not of scored through kicks like they did with us, but they'd of found a way, because Maguire is a very good coach. It wasn't a fun night, but it's important that we carry our heads high.

The advantage of Jones over Flanagan is obvious now we had LMS in the centres, and obviously Walsh coming back can't happen soon enough. Lomax is the one I'm closest to calling though. His positioning was poor today and was exposed. I thought Thompson showed up well, and actually won metres in the collision at times which was more than most, and Walmsley was our clear mom.

Lomax has lost so much pace it's unreal. Massively out of position as well.

I think we are good super league side but we have NO world class players so when we come up against teams like Souths it sticks out like sore thumb. Wilkin was awful and again shows he's ok in halves in super league but not against world class teams.

Not going to go into this in depth but ......Mose!

The gap between NRL and super league is as big as ever. At times in the first half we held our own but the min they upper their gear we looked so poor.

I expected a hammering and we got one.

Re: Reality check : Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:39 am  

I didn,t think we were that far away with our pack it was just our backline that was exposed as men against boys. With the execption of Percival all our backs were fully exposed for all to see not enough size, stamina, strength speed etc. Johnny Lomax looked a little boy lost last night.

Also we must not forget that this NRL team where head and shoulders above all the teams in the comp and put 30 points on a very good Canterbury Bulldogs side in the grand final.

If we ask where do we go from here, we don't, I can't see any superleague side having a back line like the Rabbitoh's at there disposal, there backline would probably demolish an all england side let alone a superleague one.
Could we have beaten St George or Brisbane probably yes, but the reality check is that not many teams will beat Sydney Rabbitoh's never mind a superleague one.

Re: Reality check : Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:42 am  

I went last night, after watching the first two games was really looking forward to the game. Souths were just too good.
As for salary cap, I don't think that's the issue. If we raised it, it would only mean average and poor players would command a higher salary. For me the issue is the lack of pure talent, competition for places and the lack of numbers playing the sport in comparison to Aus.
All IMHO of course.

Re: Reality check : Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:43 am  

St pete wrote:

Lomax has lost so much pace it's unreal. Massively out of position as well.

I think we are good super league side but we have NO world class players so when we come up against teams like Souths it sticks out like sore thumb. Wilkin was awful and again shows he's ok in halves in super league but not against world class teams.

Not going to go into this in depth but ......Mose!

The gap between NRL and super league is as big as ever. At times in the first half we held our own but the min they upper their gear we looked so poor.

I expected a hammering and we got one.

Lomax's positioning is what disappoints me more than anything. As Wellens proved, you can make up physical flaws by being in the right place at the right time and Lomax just hasn't been able to grasp that. The first try was very poor and the try after the clash of heads just had an ominous sense of foreboding about it. I've always worried he was too short to be effective at fullback ... But again is there a SL side out there who could exploit it, because I'm not sure ...

Wilkin wasn't great, but he allowed Burns to at least create some space (even if it was closed near enough immediately!) but a fully fit Walsh would of been incredibly useful I agree. Thing is, would matty smith or Richie Myler done any better than Wilkin tonight?

I was expecting more from Mose tonight, the eyes of the NRL and a chance to improve his next contract should of seen him trying to go blow for blow... But he didn't. When you compare him to George Rose's performance for example, you wonder how the Aussie conditioning teams are so far ahead of our own ... On the other hand, I don't think we need to worry about Savelio leaving for aus any time soon, he was out of his depth from the minute he stepped on the pitch.

I think we have potential world class players at the minute. But potential doesn't beat the real thing. We're as young a team as any, and providing they learn the lessons, will be better for it, as hard as it is to see right now. I also think there's 1 maybe 2 players in SL who are world class, so it's not a problem localised to Saints.