Re: Wello : Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:39 am  

Twentyman wrote:

A St.Helens RL great...played for us for 16 years. That's probably longer than most of the posters on this forum have been supporting Saints, posters, who want him out, who slag him off and say that he's personally holding back the supposed emerging talent at the club...that he's stealing a living. How fickle some of you are, turning on your own captain. "It was the worst performance ever"!!! Honestly, if that's the worst performance you've seen from a player, or from a team then you've only been watching Saints for a handful of years. Get a grip. We've lost loads of key players, we have no half backs, we've had to try and change our whole style and Paul Wellens has been landed with the job of trying to drag us over the finish line....cos no other bugger's going to do it. So get off his back, be a proper supporter and support the team.

Nothing like throwing in some worthless points to support a weak argument to retain a player so past his best he needs the Hubble telescope to see it.

Re: Wello : Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:10 am  

No1 Saint wrote:

Utter tosh. As Captain that would be Roby with Walsh as vice captain, is he a great leader? not so sure myself he has experience but he also has a habit of moaning at the ref alot and waving his arms around like a windmill, we have looked lacking in leadership for a while. Lets get the playing side straight too, he is way way too slow to be effective at fullback, Makinson , Swift and Hohaia can all cover 1 as well as our first choice Lomax. He is a terrible halfback and next season we will have Walsh, Burns, Hewitt, Charnock, Wilkin and even Hohaia to cover 2 spots. Loose forward?? Well take your pick, given we rarely seem to play a real loose anyway you can pick any number of our forwards to play there.

Much better than any of Alex Salmond's arguments but I'm sure it wont satisfy the sentimental ones on here who simply believe because he's been here a long time he should be able to just write his own contracts.

You've put a lot of players in there, 9 in total to cover for what Wello is trying to do, some are not officially signed, some are not superleague standard. I,m not arguing over the ability of Wellens but a Plan B replacement.
I would agree Roby should be captain but I,m not sure if he is a natural leader, to a certain extent Wello is not a natural leader as well, in a way Wello is "lumbered" with the job because no one else is coming through. We could say lets give Wilkin the job, but in 12 months time we will have the same scenario.
If the whole team performed to there potentional then Wello would be a passenger, but at the moment most of the team are Lazy and Inconsistent which effectively is keeping Wello in the playing frame.

Re: Wello : Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:29 am  

No1 Saint wrote:

Nothing like throwing in some worthless points to support a weak argument to retain a player so past his best he needs the Hubble telescope to see it.

He is past his best...Sinfield's past his best, so is Peacock. Menzies was past his best when he was still contributing hugely to the Catalans a few seasons back in his late 30's.

I remember Wellens when he first burst on to the scene. He hardly ever missed a tackle. His positioning was excellent (which made up for his lack of speed). Safe as houses under the bomb. Used to always beat the 1st tackler and was brilliant at following up on the shoulder of a team mate to score yet another try. He's not that player anymore. What he is though is a player who loves his club, who leads by example, who whinges at the ref which I'd rather have than a team full of mutes! I want to see the next best thing coming through the ranks at Saints. I want to see us recruiting amazing talent...it's not happening much though and that isn't Wellens fault.

And it isn't a weak argument. You're blaming Wellens. That's like when people blame the people who are on benefits for staying on benefits cos they pick up more money than they would get from a minimum wage job. It's not their fault really, it's the systems fault and whoever created it. Now Wellens isn't involved in recruitment...nor does he train/coach the youth team. He isn't involved in the financial dealings of the club either. He's just a 34 year old player who's big enough to put his hand up and use his experience to guide the team over the finish line....that to me, is REAL leadership.

Re: Wello : Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:32 am  

Twentyman wrote:

He is past his best...Sinfield's past his best, so is Peacock. Menzies was past his best when he was still contributing hugely to the Catalans a few seasons back in his late 30's.

I remember Wellens when he first burst on to the scene. He hardly ever missed a tackle. His positioning was excellent (which made up for his lack of speed). Safe as houses under the bomb. Used to always beat the 1st tackler and was brilliant at following up on the shoulder of a team mate to score yet another try. He's not that player anymore. What he is though is a player who loves his club, who leads by example, who whinges at the ref which I'd rather have than a team full of mutes! I want to see the next best thing coming through the ranks at Saints. I want to see us recruiting amazing talent...it's not happening much though and that isn't Wellens fault.

And it isn't a weak argument. You're blaming Wellens. That's like when people blame the people who are on benefits for staying on benefits cos they pick up more money than they would get from a minimum wage job. It's not their fault really, it's the systems fault and whoever created it. Now Wellens isn't involved in recruitment...nor does he train/coach the youth team. He isn't involved in the financial dealings of the club either. He's just a 34 year old player who's big enough to put his hand up and use his experience to guide the team over the finish line....that to me, is REAL leadership.

I'm not blaming Wellens, he will play till he's 60 if the club keep giving him contracts. I remember Wello when he first came through too and thats why its all the more painful to watch him at the moment looking like a shadow of the GB international he was.

On the other players you've named. Peacock is still first choice prop at Leeds, Sinfield is first choice halfback at Leeds and Menzies was a freak and was pretty much first choice till he retired. Wello is not a first pick in any of 1-13 yet he gets wedged in somehow like earlier in the season when he was on the bench ahead of Hohaia

Re: Wello : Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:30 pm  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

Yet created our only two tries ... What does that say about the rest of the team? He wasn't the worst player on the pitch let alone "of all time"

I didn't actually say "of all time" so not sure why you've quoted me saying that.?

He was tripe and it was hard to see him struggle so much. Purely cause he was out of position. I couldn't care less if he was involved in two tries. His overall game was shocking. He wasn't the only one but this thread is specifically about wello...

Tonight he should be much better if he's playing at FB.

Re: Wello : Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:31 pm  

Albion wrote:

I didn't actually say "of all time" so not sure why you've quoted me saying that.?

He was tripe and it was hard to see him struggle so much. Purely cause he was out of position. I couldn't care less if he was involved in two tries. His overall game was shocking. He wasn't the only one but this thread is specifically about wello...

Tonight he should be much better if he's playing at FB.

No, you're wrong. Paul Wellens won the man of steel in 2006 and has played for the club for 16 years, this makes him exempt from any and all criticism, despite how badly he may have played.

How dare you. You are wrong.

Edit: I'm sure Wello would be the first to admit he had a stinker last week.

Re: Wello : Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:41 pm  

BackrowSaint wrote:

No, you're wrong. Paul Wellens won the man of steel in 2006 and has played for the club for 16 years, this makes him exempt from any and all criticism, despite how badly he may have played.

How dare you. You are wrong.

Edit: I'm sure Wello would be the first to admit he had a stinker last week.

He was dog turd last week. He isn't exempt from criticism. There is sentiment in my argument, I can't help it, he's a Saints legend. However I don't think there's sentiment in business. If Wellens has nothing more to offer the squad then he'll be released like everyone else. At the moment, we need him.

Re: Wello : Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:02 pm  

Twentyman wrote:

He was dog turd last week. He isn't exempt from criticism. There is sentiment in my argument, I can't help it, he's a Saints legend. However I don't think there's sentiment in business. If Wellens has nothing more to offer the squad then he'll be released like everyone else. At the moment, we need him.

Fair enough, can't argue with that.

Although I don't think he brings as much leadership as is suggested at times. He is simply a senior player, not a leader IMO.

Re: Wello : Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:19 pm  

BackrowSaint wrote:

Fair enough, can't argue with that.

Although I don't think he brings as much leadership as is suggested at times. He is simply a senior player, not a leader IMO.

I would agree with that mate. Is it just me or do we have a quiet team so to speak? I mean, the players we have seem to be the 'keep their heads down' type, rather than natural leaders.

Re: Wello : Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:30 pm  

I thought he was both aweful and our best pivot last week. Which is critical of the team. He played bad but many played bad with no plus to their game.

I do think he has been over used this year. But the rest need to be undropable. And they have not been. One off games and lack of form mean Wellens leadership outlasts an odd good game.