Re: 19 man Squad Announced - 3 new players!? : Wed May 21, 2014 2:04 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Indeed. So if they are wanting to build up his fitness, they introduce him for longer spells in the first team not have him playing 80 minutes against lesser opposition. How does playing against lads smaller than him build up his ability to play against bigger blokes exactly?

I have played a lot of sport, thanks for asking.

We aren't discussing his ability to play against size, we're discussing his fitness. You simply can't put him in the first team for close to 80 minutes, you can in the U19's. In terms of FITNESS, which is pretty much an obsession in my life, 80 minutes in the U19's is far, far more beneficial than 20-30 in the first team.

Also, I didn't ask how much sport you played, I'm sure you have participated in a number of sports as have I. My question was, what is your first hand experience of having a long term injury and than working back to full match fitness in a game of Rugby League. That is the point we are discussing here.

Feel free to completely avoid the exact question again though, it'll confirm to me you have no experience of it and are talking out of your backside.

Re: 19 man Squad Announced - 3 new players!? : Wed May 21, 2014 2:13 pm  

BackrowSaint wrote:

We aren't discussing his ability to play against size, we're discussing his fitness. You simply can't put him in the first team for close to 80 minutes, you can in the U19's.

Why would we want him to play 80 minutes in the first team? I didn't suggest that at all!

In terms of FITNESS, which is pretty much an obsession in my life, 80 minutes in the U19's is far, far more beneficial than 20-30 in the first team.

Aerobic fitness maybe but not strength building or endurance come to think of it. Like Masoe, the only way Savelio is going to get fitter at first team level is to have gradually increasing spells playing in the first team.

Feel free to completely avoid the exact question again though, it'll confirm to me you have no experience of it and are talking out of your backside.

Really? Ok. If you say so!

Re: 19 man Squad Announced - 3 new players!? : Wed May 21, 2014 2:22 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Why would we want him to play 80 minutes in the first team? I didn't suggest that at all!

Neither did I, I was stating that he can play much longer minutes at U19's level

SaintsFan wrote:

Aerobic fitness maybe but not strength building or endurance come to think of it. Like Masoe, the only way Savelio is going to get fitter at first team level is to have gradually increasing spells playing in the first team.

You've just contradicted yourself, aerobic fitness IS endurance. His endurance will increase far more over a long spell rather than short spells of intense bursts. Playing for less than 30 minutes will increase anaerobic fitness, this isn't the area that he needs to improve. You're more than welcome to get into a debate about how to increase fitness with me but I will embarrass you, it's a field I have a lot of experience in and I plan most of my week around my fitness regime.

Once again, the debate is not about strength building, this can be done in the gym. The discussion is about fitness.

SaintsFan wrote:

Really? Ok. If you say so!

I do say so and once again you avoided the question, not only that but you managed to make posts that are factually incorrect this time. Thanks for the conformation.

Re: Squad Announced for Huddersfield : Wed May 21, 2014 3:37 pm  

Hohaia
Makinson
Turner
Soliola
Dawson
Wheeler
Walsh
Walker
Roby
LMS
Flanagan
Wilkin
Wellens

Masoe
Wellens
Richards
Greenwood

Re: Squad Announced for Huddersfield : Wed May 21, 2014 3:41 pm  

after the weekend performance and all the media statements we need a 110% performance against Hudds. Anything less and there will be uproar! If we lose but lose fighting I won’t be to bothered but we lose on a whimper.... ARHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Re: 19 man Squad Announced - 3 new players!? : Wed May 21, 2014 3:46 pm  

BackrowSaint wrote:

I believe the plan with Savelio is to beast him doing close to 80 mins a game in the u19's to really raise his fitness. He'll then be used to effect at the end of the year when he's ready.

It's important to remember he barely played at all last year due to illness and injury so his fitness will have took a huge hit. I'm sure that come the business end of the season we will see him more often.

It is a very sory state of affairs at saints when a young lad cant get up to full fitness in 5 months no matter what his size was before.Probably says a lot for the conditioning and fitness team at saints.As opposed to wigan who man for man look so superior in the fitness department.

Re: 19 man Squad Announced - 3 new players!? : Wed May 21, 2014 3:53 pm  

saintnickle34 wrote:

It is a very sory state of affairs at saints when a young lad cant get up to full fitness in 5 months no matter what his size was before.Probably says a lot for the conditioning and fitness team at saints.As opposed to wigan who man for man look so superior in the fitness department.

Due to his size and lack of games beforehand I would say 5 to 8 months is a reasonable timescale for him to be match fit. If he doesn't start featuring occasionaly towards the end of June/ start of August is when I'll start questioning things.

Re: 19 man Squad Announced - 3 new players!? : Wed May 21, 2014 4:07 pm  

BackrowSaint wrote:

Due to his size and lack of games beforehand I would say 5 to 8 months is a reasonable timescale for him to be match fit. If he doesn't start featuring occasionaly towards the end of June/ start of August is when I'll start questioning things.

I disagree.5 to 8 months seems like an excessive amount of time to get fit especially for a youngster.If he has a problem with training and weight it needs to get sorted or show him the door.It was a similar thing with wheeler with his attitude to training and his weight.If you cant motivte yourself when you are at one of the best rl clubs about then its time to pack it in.

Re: 19 man Squad Announced - 3 new players!? : Wed May 21, 2014 4:19 pm  

saintnickle34 wrote:

I disagree.5 to 8 months seems like an excessive amount of time to get fit especially for a youngster.If he has a problem with training and weight it needs to get sorted or show him the door.It was a similar thing with wheeler with his attitude to training and his weight.If you cant motivte yourself when you are at one of the best rl clubs about then its time to pack it in.

From a normal injury - 5 to 8 months sounds about right, depending on what it was. I had to retire due to injury (so according to the red bit I'm more qualified to talk about it ) it's not just as simplistic as motivation and "training the house down" but getting your body used to impact again, getting used to peaking at the right times (aka not in training) and generally "getting back in routine" can take a good 3 months beyond recovering from a physical injury. Then, when you consider Savelios case is far more complex than a broken leg for example - your assuming that it has something to do with his attitude shows you have never been in the unfortunate position of having to re climb the mountain.

Oh, and weight and fitness are too different things. The trick is to get both for forwards, not one or the other. I bet our conditioning team could get him running a marathon soon enough, but that's not what were going for here.

I totally understand the argument for patience with Savelio (and from my perspective that's to do with the future role he plays in the team rather than fitness related issues.) But I do think doing 20-30 minutes this week could of been helpful to the team.

Re: 19 man Squad Announced - 3 new players!? : Wed May 21, 2014 4:22 pm  

saintnickle34 wrote:

I disagree.5 to 8 months seems like an excessive amount of time to get fit especially for a youngster.If he has a problem with training and weight it needs to get sorted or show him the door.It was a similar thing with wheeler with his attitude to training and his weight.If you cant motivte yourself when you are at one of the best rl clubs about then its time to pack it in.

People often underestimate the fitness of top level RL players and the time required to get to full match fitness. There's a reason pre season is often around 4 months long, bearing in mind the vast majority of players will have had a full season of playing to maintain fitness levels too, Savelio has had none of this. Savelio was building from a very base level of fitness and needs time to get upto match fitness, 5 months is not a long time to get to the levels required.