Re: Wire stats (look at your peril) : Sun May 25, 2014 12:02 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

i have no massive beef with Wilkin as a lad, I approximate he puts a lot in, but when you're chasing titles, an underweight back row is not something of use.
People can quote his high tackle rate as a reason to play him all they want, but believe me, if Wilkin wasn't there to make that high tally, someone else would be, weather it be Jones, Flash, Wello or Walker - it's the easiest role in the team to fill.
The ball Playing 13 is not a thing of the past, but it only works if you have some one exceptional like S OL doing, which is why it's so common to see people playing a prop at 13.
Wilkin up with some good touches in a highlights reel, but his bread and butter go forward is well below par. You can state that his quasi playmaking role may affect his stats, but go and compare his stats to Westerman's (who's playing in a team that's really struggling) and they pale in comparison.
He's also one if the lads that's too bloody nice. Saddened will remind you of us getting knocked out of the playoffs by Wire - Westwood had been knocking 7 bells outer us, but when Wilkin caught him with a night shot, he practically chased after him to apologise. Now, that's fine if you're Apollo Perelini and you've spent the rest of the game hurting them legally, but that does not apply to JW.

For me, his standing in the squad is a problem if we want to make progress.
We should have flogged him to Salford when they started flashing the Kash.

Great post. JW was a jack of all trades in 2006, unfortunately he never pushed on to master any of them. He doesn't have the leadership of wello, the handling skills of a fully fledged ball handling lock, the leg drive of a true second row, and the worst kicking game of anyone at the club (every kick vs hudds went to hand not to ground - that was fine last year, but given we have Walsh showing us how it's done, it gets all the more disappointing) - of course his work rate is pointed at, but I'd definitely put him in the clone category, and wello, Flanaghan and even some of the youngsters (Thompson springs to mind) could fulfil that role, without feeling the need to takeover the halfbacks. I also find it troubling how whenever we hear rumours of discontent in the camp his name is usually involved.

I like JW and have always wanted him to push on and fulfil his potential of 10 years ago, but he never truly has - I'd swap him for westerman in a minute atm. Realistically, I'd rather wello took the 13 shirt, with sia, greenwood and Flanaghan/ Thompson (Manu when he's back) in the second row. Our halves seem settled now as well.

Re: Wire stats (look at your peril) : Sun May 25, 2014 12:20 pm  

Wikin is a pivotal player and his role is not to do hard yards, when we don't have the ball he does a lot of hard work in defense.
Yes, he will have the odd quiet game, most of the time he handles the ball quite a lot so there is a risk also in the error count.
His job is to work alongside the halves, he has good footwork for a forward as a battering ram its just not his game.

Flanagan and Thompson are nowhere near Wilkins skill set, those two cant play scrum half and stand off in a crisis. The problem with Wilkin is just consistency which is a problem you get when playing in a utility role and other players are not doing there job.

Re: Wire stats (look at your peril) : Sun May 25, 2014 12:29 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

Wikin is a pivotal player and his role is not to do hard yards, when we don't have the ball he does a lot of hard work in defense.
Yes, he will have the odd quiet game, most of the time he handles the ball quite a lot so there is a risk also in the error count.
His job is to work alongside the halves, he has good footwork for a forward as a battering ram its just not his game.

Flanagan and Thompson are nowhere near Wilkins skill set, those two cant play scrum half and stand off in a crisis. The problem with Wilkin is just consistency which is a problem you get when playing in a utility role and other players are not doing there job.

Utility roles don't exist any more. If he'd of developed into a ball handling lock like scully, fine, if he'd of developed into a foot work orientated, line breaking second rower like Gilmour, fine, if he'd of developed into a workhorse second row capable of doing the hard yards like Bennett, fine (though a waste) - but what is Wilkins role on the rugby league field? Is he a lock? Is he a second row? Whilst Flanaghan and Thompson may be more limited in what they can do, they know their roles and stick to them, and make positive contributions to the team, consistently (and I'm no fan on Flanaghan).

I really like the idea of having wellens at lock, playing the traditional full back role of pushing through the middle supporting on the shoulders of the ball carrier 2/3 times a set, taking the ball up in a pinch and tackling anything that moves whilst lomax plays the "new" full back role as third pivot. But to do that, our back rowers need to do a more traditional job, which Wilkin doesn't fit.

Re: Wire stats (look at your peril) : Sun May 25, 2014 12:31 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

Wikin is a pivotal player and his role is not to do hard yards, when we don't have the ball he does a lot of hard work in defense.
Yes, he will have the odd quiet game, most of the time he handles the ball quite a lot so there is a risk also in the error count.
His job is to work alongside the halves, he has good footwork for a forward as a battering ram its just not his game.

Flanagan and Thompson are nowhere near Wilkins skill set, those two cant play scrum half and stand off in a crisis. The problem with Wilkin is just consistency which is a problem you get when playing in a utility role and other players are not doing there job.

Not big enough to play Backrow and not fast enough or clever enough to play 6. I'd have no problem in letting him go. Flash Is just as good as him in defence

Re: Wire stats (look at your peril) : Sun May 25, 2014 1:19 pm  

St pete wrote:

Not big enough to play Backrow and not fast enough or clever enough to play 6. I'd have no problem in letting him go. Flash Is just as good as him in defence

Flash is better I defence as he hits harder and is harder to dominate.

Re: Wire stats (look at your peril) : Sun May 25, 2014 1:30 pm  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

I really like the idea of having wellens at lock, playing the traditional full back role of pushing through the middle supporting on the shoulders of the ball carrier 2/3 times a set, taking the ball up in a pinch and tackling anything that moves whilst lomax plays the "new" full back role as third pivot. But to do that, our back rowers need to do a more traditional job, which Wilkin doesn't fit.

I haven't seen the Hudds game yet, but from listening , is was obvious Wello contributed to the attack.
The above thought occurred to me.
When Rush took over from Riyce and we went bCk to basics, Wello ended up our top try scorer, making breaks and half breaks from sculking around the ruck and taking short balls and offloads.
By itself, could teams could manage it because they could go tight Round the middle, knowing thre was less hoist o. Out wide. If he did this from 13, however, we've still got the threat of Lomax out wide to keep the defence stretched, but out attack in the middle would be harder to contain.
In defence, he can be the workhorse and, S he's now labelled as the only guy who can give us the rocket we need, hopefully we'll look better as a team.
Well end can't effectively graft for yards , so that means you need the rest of your back rows to give you go forward drives - Wilkin is bottom of the pile for that. It may also clash with any 3 prop system that people like.

Re: Wire stats (look at your peril) : Sun May 25, 2014 1:48 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

When Rush took over from Riyce and we went bCk to basics, Wello ended up our top try scorer, making breaks and half breaks from sculking around the ruck and taking short balls and offloads.

But we only ever went in one direction - to the left. We became predictable and dull and easy to defend against.

I loved the start of the season when we were mixing it up and showing some flair.

Re: Wire stats (look at your peril) : Sun May 25, 2014 2:38 pm  

I've been thinking about the option of playing Wello at 13 and having a supporting full back role in attack and a grafting defence job and I think it could work with a lineup something like this (at current squad helath):


Mose
Roby
Richards
Soliola
LMS
Wellens

Thompson
Greenwood
Walker
Wilkin

Adding LMS to the second row effectively changes him to a position which I think will be better for him and beefs our pack up a bit in attack. I don't think there's room for both Wellens and Wilkin in the pack.

When all are fit:

Amor
Roby
Walmsley
Soliola
Manu
Wellens

Mose
Laffranchi
Thompson
LMS/Wilkin

Re: Wire stats (look at your peril) : Sun May 25, 2014 5:37 pm  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

Utility roles don't exist any more. If he'd of developed into a ball handling lock like scully, fine, if he'd of developed into a foot work orientated, line breaking second rower like Gilmour, fine, if he'd of developed into a workhorse second row capable of doing the hard yards like Bennett, fine (though a waste) - but what is Wilkins role on the rugby league field? Is he a lock? Is he a second row? Whilst Flanaghan and Thompson may be more limited in what they can do, they know their roles and stick to them, and make positive contributions to the team, consistently (and I'm no fan on Flanaghan).

.

But he does have ball handling skills and good footwork but nowhere to the extent of Scully and Gilmour. We can't ignore the fact that he is running second in the team for try assists and again second in the team for clean breaks.
Wilkin is very much involved in the second phase on our left hand side with a passing game, whilst Sia is working the right hand side with a power running game.
In my opinion his contribution is underestimated sometimes by fans on here, last year for instance we had no half backs up stepped Wilkin played an alien role and contributed to our climb up the table when we struggled to finish in the top 8. Wilkin is a utility player.

In my opinion Wilkins future replacement would be neither Flanagan or Thompson but...........Joe Greenwood

Re: Wire stats (look at your peril) : Sun May 25, 2014 7:00 pm  

I posted before the hudds game that I would play wello 13. He's not the greatest and I prob wouldn't have had him playing this year but like I've said, he can't be any worse than other players that played 13 but wello will give us heart, passion and desire.

I'd rather wello play avg but play with heart and pride than have Lms play with no heart or passion.