Re: Nathan Brown : Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:56 am  

I think it's less about tinkering.

Tinkering suggests no plan at all, just switching for the sake of it.

Personally I think there was a plan with the changes for the Wire game, however not all plans are perfect and on that occasion it did not work out, mainly due to players not retaining the ball.

Better ball retention would have lead to that opening 20 minutes being a bit of a slog athone, but I think NB would have been looking to be down by say 6 before bring on our strike players to try and bust open the Warrington defense. As it was the 2nd half of the game plan worked, it was the poor ball retention that gave up too much possession and field position.

Like I say not tinkering, but having more than one plan A, to be used against all teams.

Re: Nathan Brown : Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:26 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

I think it's less about tinkering.

Tinkering suggests no plan at all, just switching for the sake of it.

Personally I think there was a plan with the changes for the Wire game, however not all plans are perfect and on that occasion it did not work out, mainly due to players not retaining the ball.

Better ball retention would have lead to that opening 20 minutes being a bit of a slog athone, but I think NB would have been looking to be down by say 6 before bring on our strike players to try and bust open the Warrington defense. As it was the 2nd half of the game plan worked, it was the poor ball retention that gave up too much possession and field position.

Like I say not tinkering, but having more than one plan A, to be used against all teams.

Spot on. A lot of posters on here don't like/get Browns way of thinking and choose to mock it instead of understand it. Brown has given the full squad a run in a number of different positions and in doing so has found the best combinations and identified holes in the squad that our recruiting for next year will fill. Reading the recent article on the Saints website Brown talks about how the team has changed. The back three starting the season as Wellens/Gardner/Meli and ending as Lomax/Makinson/Swift has been an amazing improvement in terms of speed, skill and age, but it has only come about from trial and error. In the end you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

We need to have a long term vision if we are going to improve as a club and challenge for trophies. As fans we need to look at the bigger picture and not just react to the last result regardless if it is good or bad. Brown still has work to do and his legacy at the club will depend on where the club is at the end of his 4 years. Until then I am happy to let him get on with it.

Re: Nathan Brown : Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:50 pm  

well that was a failure of a season from st helens all said and done. 5th placed finish, out of the playoffs early and out of the cup early.

and you thought nathan brown was the messiah! fooled me too, thought you would win something this year.

Re: Nathan Brown : Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:42 pm  

brearley84 wrote:

well that was a failure of a season from st helens all said and done. 5th placed finish, out of the playoffs early and out of the cup early.

and you thought nathan brown was the messiah! fooled me too, thought you would win something this year.

With the long term injuries we have had to key players this season, plus a lot of work to undo what Mick Potter started and Royce continued, I think to finish 5th on the back of a "poor season" isnt that bad really.

The way we have improved from the back end of June to how we finished last week has been a huge turnaround, and think NB and the coaching staff need to be recognised for this, I would challenge Huddersfield to have finished any higher if missing Brough & Lunt alone for the majority of the season let alone another 8-10 of their first choice playing squad on top of that.

Our recruitment for next year looks good (an ACTUAL scrum half!! along with some big size added to the pack for a change) and I am confident that Brown is the right man for the job and expect us to win something next season. If we fail to win anything next year, I will be more critical of him but for the adversities we have had this season I think he has done a decent job this year all in all.

Re: Nathan Brown : Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:45 pm  

brearley84 wrote:

well that was a failure of a season from st helens all said and done. 5th placed finish, out of the playoffs early and out of the cup early.

and you thought nathan brown was the messiah! fooled me too, thought you would win something this year.

Re: Nathan Brown : Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:44 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

I think it's less about tinkering.

Tinkering suggests no plan at all, just switching for the sake of it.

Personally I think there was a plan with the changes for the Wire game, however not all plans are perfect and on that occasion it did not work out, mainly due to players not retaining the ball.

Better ball retention would have lead to that opening 20 minutes being a bit of a slog athone, but I think NB would have been looking to be down by say 6 before bring on our strike players to try and bust open the Warrington defense. As it was the 2nd half of the game plan worked, it was the poor ball retention that gave up too much possession and field position.

Like I say not tinkering, but having more than one plan A, to be used against all teams.

nathan brown does not have a plan B ! one his his downfalls when at the giants

Re: Nathan Brown : Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:48 pm  

Dux wrote:

He still had his odd moments at the back end of the year, though. That starting pack against Warrington, for example. I think it's just a quirk that we'll have to get used to with Brown. Sometimes it'll reveal something interesting about a player, sometimes it'll cost us points.

Not sure the Giants fans ever got used to it and he did it for all the time he was there so the suggestion that he was somehow finding out who played where in our team doesn't wash with me. It's what he does and it undermines us. When he stopped doing it, after the Chairman made his second big speech to all and sundry, we started to improve. He did it again against Wire and hey-ho we crumbled again.

Re: Nathan Brown : Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:28 pm  

brearley84 wrote:

nathan brown does not have a plan B ! one his his downfalls when at the giants

True, you never got to within 80 minutes of OT under brown . . . . Hang on a minute!

Re: Nathan Brown : Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:11 pm  

brearley84 wrote:

nathan brown does not have a plan B ! one his his downfalls when at the giants

But that's untrue Brown has shown this season he has plans A to Z, he will try a different game plan near enough every week.

Re: Nathan Brown : Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:41 pm  

Noel Cleal wrote:

Brown still has work to do and his legacy at the club will depend on where the club is at the end of his 4 years. Until then I am happy to let him get on with it.

What additional work has Brown to do exactly?

What he needs to do next season is actually coach the team. He will have all the necessary ingredients to have a good team next season, one which will be competitive.

I'm yet to be convinced that he is a good coach but I'm prepared to give him next season. If he messes us up again as he has done on many occasions this season, irrespective of injuries, then I won't want him around for the final year of his contract (he signed for three years by the way, not four).