Re: Nathan Brown on 'that' tackle. : Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:07 am  

el red wrote:

I have watched the 'tackle' back several times now and it is very late and a definite shoulder charge. There is contact with the head so you would expect Zeb to get at least a couple of games. I find it a little hypocritical though that you blow up about this after the cup game at Craven Park where Dobson was taken out by a late shoulder charge from Wilkin (a very clean player BTW), and Welham was put out for the rest of the season by a late shoulder charge. You rightly state that it is a game wide problem, one of our own players took out Blake Green in the cup game with Wigan by using a shoulder charge. If its illegal then start sending people off to get the message across. I hope young O'Brien is OK, and also the very best of luck for the rest of the season.

Both Saints players got bans. The Wigan cretin who did it didnt even get a yellow card. We'll see what happens to Cats btw

Re: Nathan Brown on 'that' tackle. : Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:14 am  

Luckily O'Brien is okay, glass jaw as he put it on twitter. I think Brown has every right to speak out about the tackle but he might find a nice fine coming his way. I wrote about it on my blog today, talking about Sandercocks reaction at the weekend as well. Luckily Brown is in the Super League as so far Parramattas Ricky Stuart has had $25,000 in fines this season for speaking about referees. http://www.thebackline.co.uk/the-coache ... -referees/

Luckily O'Brien is okay, glass jaw as he put it on twitter. I think Brown has every right to speak out about the tackle but he might find a nice fine coming his way. I wrote about it on my blog today, talking about Sandercocks reaction at the weekend as well. Luckily Brown is in the Super League as so far Parramattas Ricky Stuart has had $25,000 in fines this season for speaking about referees. http://www.thebackline.co.uk/the-coache ... -referees/

Re: Nathan Brown on 'that' tackle. : Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:14 am  

Brown also mentions that there is still one club targeting the knee joint area....I wonder which club that would be.

As regards the RFL on player protection, why don,t they show there total ineptness and accuse O,Brien of bringing the game into disrepute by his lack of vision and skill of addressing a late tackle.

Re: Nathan Brown on 'that' tackle. : Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:24 am  

I think the big problem for refs is its tough to see at the speed they see and they have to make a call there and then. Most of these "late shoulder charges" are after the ball has gone. I think the RFL hasn't done the refs any favours with the shoulder charge rule and its hard for them to call.

The walker tackle against Wigan is a good example. Five of us watched it back at my house the following day. Three didnt think the was contact to the head and two thought the was. That was with about 10 replays plus the sky replays. The ref is expected to make that call there and then!

The disciplinary board isn't consistent enough with their bans. One week a player is banned for something and then the next a player has nothing to answer and that's a real problem and why coaches, players and fans get so irate with them.

Another example of not being consistent on the field. Yesterday Lms threw a cracking right hand and landed flush on the frogs nose. It wasn't self defence or protecting himself, he threw the first punch and ended up in the bin (correct IMO). Few weeks back, Wardle from hudds did exactly the same thing and got sent off. Danny maguire threw a punch and didnt get put in the bin.

Three players have threw the first punch. Wardle was sent off, Lms went in the bin and Danny maguire had a warning off the ref!

The RFL need to sort this out and fast!

Re: Nathan Brown on 'that' tackle. : Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:30 am  

St pete wrote:

I think the big problem for refs is its tough to see at the speed they see and they have to make a call there and then. Most of these "late shoulder charges" are after the ball has gone. I think the RFL hasn't done the refs any favours with the shoulder charge rule and its hard for them to call.

The walker tackle against Wigan is a good example. Five of us watched it back at my house the following day. Three didnt think the was contact to the head and two thought the was. That was with about 10 replays plus the sky replays. The ref is expected to make that call there and then!

The disciplinary board isn't consistent enough with their bans. One week a player is banned for something and then the next a player has nothing to answer and that's a real problem and why coaches, players and fans get so irate with them.

Another example of not being consistent on the field. Yesterday Lms threw a cracking right hand and landed flush on the frogs nose. It wasn't self defence or protecting himself, he threw the first punch and ended up in the bin (correct IMO). Few weeks back, Wardle from hudds did exactly the same thing and got sent off. Danny maguire threw a punch and didnt get put in the bin.

Three players have threw the first punch. Wardle was sent off, Lms went in the bin and Danny maguire had a warning off the ref!

The RFL need to sort this out and fast!

Couldn't agree more. If they miss it then fair enough. If they see it they should be consistent.

Re: Nathan Brown on 'that' tackle. : Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:49 am  

Im glad he is speaking out, puts him in a good light to the players, fans and board. It was late and it wasnt pretty and probably warranted a yellow card with extras coming in the next few days. I
think the On Report is a cop out too, its tougher when the games arent on Sky and the ref only has one go at it but theres 6 officials at those games, if not one of them can make a decision then i'd rather they looked into sorting that problem out because its a disgrace.

Good on LMS for giving a bit back and good craic from O'Brien on Twitter but Wilkin's line to Thaler during the game said it all, " We get bent over by you boys" talking about shoulder charges etc

Re: Nathan Brown on 'that' tackle. : Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:08 am  

Somebody may be able to clear this up for me and other confused species!

If an offence occurs in the plays leading up to a try, does the referee have any way of dealing with that offence (yellow card, extra penalty etc.) other than putting it on report?
I seem to think that if he gave a penalty for the shoulder charge - and even a red card he would have had to bring the play back for the offence and not allow the try to stand.
If that is the case, the RFL need to look at why this is the case since late shoulder charges (high or not) can cause serious damage - it is possibly a hole in the rules that needs to be addressed.

Re: Nathan Brown on 'that' tackle. : Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:29 am  

The referee can allow advatage after an infringement and then go back to issue a car or on report if its serious enough. They couldn't disallow a try and go back to give a penalty, unless there was a reason why the try couldn't be allowed, such as a knock on putting the ball down. The only other permutation is where he blows his whilstle after the penalty and if he had allowed play on a try would have been scored, but in that case he makes an instant decision and blows up without seeing how play develops.

Re: Nathan Brown on 'that' tackle. : Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:33 am  

It's good that Brown's speaking out, eventually something has to be done about these late shoulders/attacking the knee. He might get himself I trouble in the process, but he's speaking the truth.

Re: Nathan Brown on 'that' tackle. : Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:48 am  

The Chief wrote:

The referee can allow advatage after an infringement and then go back to issue a car or on report if its serious enough. They couldn't disallow a try and go back to give a penalty, unless there was a reason why the try couldn't be allowed, such as a knock on putting the ball down. The only other permutation is where he blows his whilstle after the penalty and if he had allowed play on a try would have been scored, but in that case he makes an instant decision and blows up without seeing how play develops.

Tell me if I am misinterpreting what you have said

Ref can allow an advantage but if that advantage leads to a try then he can take no action against the offender except put it on report.

So if that is correct then the only 2 options the ref would have had when seeing that challenge.

Blow up immediately and the fact Saints went on to score meant the try would have been chalked off as play cannot continue after an infringement.
Let advantage happen, as we score a try in that advantage period, the only option he then has is to put the challenge on report, he cannot red card or yellow card the player or even give a penalty for it.

Now what would have suited Saints best is anyone's guess.
If the player had been sent off - Saints could live with that and lose the try
If the player was put on report and we just got a penalty - we would have thought we were hard done by.
Either way we lose our halfback and goal kicker

If all of the above is correct it makes it a bit open season for players to take out halfbacks and take their chance at the disciplinary.