Re: Halfback problem - solution ? : Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:00 pm  

St pete wrote:

This hospital must have us on a life support then, we've had halfback problems for past 2/3 seasons.

Serious question, Out of all the 6 and 7 that have been signed at rival SL clubs in the past two years who would you have gone for? Would you have gone for Smith before we signed him last year, I dont know his relationship with Saints being an ex player. Would he have gone back?

The kind of player that would suit you just is not around at the moment, a Paul Deacon type of signing. Would you go for briers for one year in the same mould we did with Deacs? If so you now have Dr at Salford bidding against you.

Re: Halfback problem - solution ? : Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:21 pm  

Lippy wrote:

Serious question, Out of all the 6 and 7 that have been signed at rival SL clubs in the past two years who would you have gone for? Would you have gone for Smith before we signed him last year, I dont know his relationship with Saints being an ex player. Would he have gone back?

The kind of player that would suit you just is not around at the moment, a Paul Deacon type of signing. Would you go for briers for one year in the same mould we did with Deacs? If so you now have Dr at Salford bidding against you.

- Gower would have been the sort of old head who would have been useful at Saints
- I'd take Briers in a blink if he was available now
- Danny Brough moved in 2010 - I'd have him at LP
- Ratchford moved at the end of 2011 and would have done a job too

There has been movement of some decently talented halfbacks. But Saints have continually believed that they have the talent to replace from within their ranks, and that gamble hasn't paid off. We've produced Eastmond (centre/fb in RU), Lomax (FB), Gaskell (unproven SO), Wheeler (A&E fixture) and Smith (I know Wigan signed him, but I remain far from convinced), and Ellis (released to Castleford, and I haven't seen enough to form a view).

Either we've been remarkably unlucky, or there's something wrong with our halfback talent-spotting/development system.

Re: Halfback problem - solution ? : Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:33 pm  

I think someone like Bosc could do a job. Out of contract, good kicking game and organisation, and a good goal kicker.

Re: Halfback problem - solution ? : Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:39 pm  

Roy Haggerty wrote:

- Gower would have been the sort of old head who would have been useful at Saints
- I'd take Briers in a blink if he was available now
- Danny Brough moved in 2010 - I'd have him at LP
- Ratchford moved at the end of 2011 and would have done a job too

There has been movement of some decently talented halfbacks. But Saints have continually believed that they have the talent to replace from within their ranks, and that gamble hasn't paid off. We've produced Eastmond (centre/fb in RU), Lomax (FB), Gaskell (unproven SO), Wheeler (A&E fixture) and Smith (I know Wigan signed him, but I remain far from convinced), and Ellis (released to Castleford, and I haven't seen enough to form a view).

Either we've been remarkably unlucky, or there's something wrong with our halfback talent-spotting/development system.

You named the only one I could think of in Rachford, but I dont think you was in for him? Danny Brough in 2010, who was your 6 and 7 then? He also had a cloud hanging over him and was the reason he moved IIRC.

Re: Halfback problem - solution ? : Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:14 pm  

The OP is clearly on a wind up to get me to explode. I won't do it..... I won't.

Re: Halfback problem - solution ? : Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:21 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

The OP is clearly on a wind up to get me to explode. I won't do it..... I won't.

Mmmm.... Wellens....talented......lovely.....Wellens.....experienced.....leader.....Wellens....good....mmmm....

Re: Halfback problem - solution ? : Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:04 pm  

Whilst I agree on the half backs, as you predicted this all came about by signing the wrong player on a 4 year deal. We had already given 4 and 3 year deals to Lomax, Gaskell and Wheeler, then we gave a 4 year deal to not a halfback.

Lance is fine nothing against the guy, but wrong guy at the wrong club for the wrong position. We may need a halfback now, but until those deals expire, why would the players move???

Either we have what we have , ie Wilkin and Gaskell or Wheeler or Lance.
We try a youth back ie swift etc
Or somehow we offload some serious cap space, ie Lance to Salford and then prize a half away from another club. Not sure who, but Tim Smith could be an option if we could temp Wakey and him with enough money given their shirt sponsor has just gone under and left them 6 figures short.

Re: Halfback problem - solution ? : Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:16 pm  

I can see Brown being desperate to bring Wellens back into the team for his leadership qualities because at the moment we are completely rudderless. There are 3 possible positions for him @ 1, 6 ot 13, its that bad in the halves we might see Wellens returning at full back and Lomax reurning at scrum half.
For me I think we should leave Lomax at full back with Wellens at stand off, for scrum half this could be a scrap between Gaskel and Yates, with Lance kept on the bench.
Someone has already mentioned an alternative of Roby at stand off, that might work because he would have more impact in open play, Lance to play hooker.
Lots of options its a matter of making the best of a "bad job".

Re: Halfback problem - solution ? : Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:29 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

I can see Brown being desperate to bring Wellens back into the team for his leadership qualities

Seriously, what leadership qualities? Flapping your arms at the referee because you're too slow to make a tackle? Having a paddy because someone else makes a mistake? He has no leadership qualities at all and if he's not up to it at fullback, I don't see why, at 33, he should be brought back in to play in a crucial position.

To solve the halfback issue, the club should identify a scrumhalf and put their hands in their pockets. Buy Kyle Eastmond out of his union nightmare, sack Hohaia, Perry or Laffranchi and sign an Aussie. I don't buy this idea that there are no decent half backs anywhere in the world. The NRL pops them out every year like ice cubes.

Sitting back and accepting our mediocrity is no longer acceptable. If they continue to do that the crowds will drop every year rather than build. Langtree Park is a depressed place, you hear the 'never again' moaners on the walk back to the car after every home game. But if Greg Eden being allowed to sign for Hull KR is anything to go by, we don't have the desire to win anymore.

Re: Halfback problem - solution ? : Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:22 pm  

I don't think the problem is merely personnel, but also the gameplay. Since soon after Potter took charge, we've played a tight and conservative game, attacking close to the ruck area.

For all his faults, at least Simmons tried to play a bit more of an expansive game, and that can give halves more time to dictate play. A lot of the reason why Lomax & Gaskell looked so promising in 2011 IMO.

Let's also not forget that Super League has increasingly become more of a bore-athon slugfest over the past few years, as coaches have exploited leeway in the rules by slowing PTB's down to tediously pedestrian speeds and refs being lax on enforcing full 10m defensive lines. The challenge for coaches is to find ways of overcoming these backwards steps for the game. Having skilled & wiley halfbacks helps greatly but, in the absence of these, it's up to the coach to formulate a way of creating an attacking threat.

I don't think any of our recent coaches have come close to doing this. Maybe in time Brown will hit on a solution, but the evidence so far doesn't suggest he's got any idea. The gameplan last night was tedious for most of the match - one-out hit-ups by the first receiver close to the ruck. Hardly any dummy runners, running unusual angles, cut-out passes. And then often kicking on the 4th.

Percentage rugby of the most sleep inducing kind.

It was only when the game was effectively lost did we give the ball some air and lose the shackles - and Percival reaped the benefit. But you can't rely on impromptu cameos from one of only a few players we have who could light up a game. So, like I said, it's up to Brown to formulate a way of organising our attack to be effective.