Re: Match Stats - Warrington (29/09/12) : Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:06 am  

Paul Youane wrote:

Do you really believe this? I've watched the game back and if you believe this your seriously deluded.

The Warrington forwards made nigh on the same metres as Saints in considerably fewer carries whilst being much more dominant in the tackle and controlling the play the ball. We won't even consider how many tries each set of forwards scored.

As an aside but linked to Saints forwards; what was the point of Dixon being on the bench?

I think you must have been watching the league game from a few weeks ago by mistake sonny. Try again watching Saturday's game instead and then tell me your forwards weren't utterly dominated for the first 50 minutes or so. Or failing that, perhaps you might want to think about why your forwards had so many fewer carries, and why they had to make so many more tackles than our forwards did, hmmm? Even the balancing of the yardage that happened when you were running riot in the last 20 minutes after our heads had dropped still hardly gets close to levelling the discrepancy up - if stats were compiled just for the opening 50 minutes then I bet a few semi-final records for one-sidedness may have been broken... Just consider the tackle counts alone for the love of mercy - you had to make over 30% more of them than we did... I bet there have been 50 point routs this season with more balanced forward stats than Saturday's game...

Saddened! wrote:

You are just doing what all winning sides do, watch it back and see dominance that just isn't there. The one and only stat/graphic Phil Clarke has ever come up with that is any use is the one which shows the volume of play the balls in each area of the pitch. Saints completely and utterly dominated and controlled the first 50 minutes of the game. We had far, far more play the balls in your 20 than you had in ours. If anything in that first 50 minutes you only had decent field position about 3 times, that's not a sign of your pack being dominant. Us having so much possession is a sign our pack was playing well enough for us to keep the ball. We had set after set in your twenty and didn't even look like scoring. Our pack is easily as good as Warrington's, but there are a few things that make you the better side. Hodgson adds a dimension to your attack that we just don't have, we've fallen for his looping runs in every game against you this season. Briers is another big factor, controlling the game and marshalling you around and teeing up the set plays in our 20 that make you so such a threat.

If Saints had a proper fullback and scrum half, we'd be well in the hunt for trophies.

This.

Apart from the usual Wello baiting anyway

Re: Match Stats - Warrington (29/09/12) : Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:28 am  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

I think you must have been watching the league game from a few weeks ago by mistake sonny. Try again watching Saturday's game instead and then tell me your forwards weren't utterly dominated for the first 50 minutes or so. Or failing that, perhaps you might want to think about why your forwards had so many fewer carries, and why they had to make so many more tackles than our forwards did, hmmm? Even the balancing of the yardage that happened when you were running riot in the last 20 minutes after our heads had dropped still hardly gets close to levelling the discrepancy up - if stats were compiled just for the opening 50 minutes then I bet a few semi-final records for one-sidedness may have been broken... Just consider the tackle counts alone for the love of mercy - you had to make over 30% more of them than we did... I bet there have been 50 point routs this season with more balanced forward stats than Saturday's game...

Oh look Mr Condascending has called me "sonny".

Why so few carries - couple of reasons; Warrington's tactic to kick early in the tackle count reduces the number of carries, penalty count of 5 to 1 during the initial period and a couple of drop outs, plus when Warrington got the ball in Saints twenty it was quite easy to score without having to build any pressure (even if your forwards were totally dominating ours). Yet for all that pressure your totally dominant forwards could only muster a two point lead.

If a team can win comfortably whilst having to make 30% more tackles that alone indicates which pack was dominating the other and had them under control. Do all that tackloing but still manage to waltz in for three tries. How many tries did your dominant pack score?

Are you seriously claiming that the likes of Perry, Wilkin and Flannagan got on top of their opposition? If you take Roby's scooting out of your pack's metres it is even more average.

As previously asked; why if your pack was so domainat were your three highest metre makes your full-back and two wingers?

Have you actually watched the match again away from the emotion of watching live?

Re: Match Stats - Warrington (29/09/12) : Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:14 am  

Paul Youane wrote:

snip

Whilst you can deny it, there's a lot that rings true.
We gained 25% more yards than you through the match, despite you blitzing us for a large portion of the 2nd half.
The positives that we cling to but which you dispute are true, but they also go to demonstrate our major flaw, which is a lack of creative play. Our forwards had no problem gaining ground and holding possession, whilst at the same time restricting your yards in the first half whilst we were fresh. However, our attack is 1 dimensional and easy to read. Whilst the forwards can get up field and drive your guys back, the lack of any width means that, apart from the actual wrestle in contact, its not causing the defence to work hard. On the flip side, Wire (and pretty much every other team) shift the ball significantly more from side to side, moving the defence with them, probing and causing more sliding and even scrambling defence. This meant that as the game went on, Warrington's energy levels didn't decline as fast as ours.
Also add to the that the mental side of things, the Saints forwards winning the territory and possesion battle, but converting generally few chances. The Wire forwards know that every other time they get down our end they'll score, since our defence out wide is poor against a good running line and your have a strong tactic with the Briers kick to Monoghan. That sort of thing allowed Wire to grow in confidence as the game went on.

Everytime we lose by more than a few points, there's some poster on here telling us how terrible we are and how we are inferior in every single area to them. It wasn't long ago we had a certain Wigan poster on here telling us how not a single saints forward would be worth a place in his teams pack.
Wire are coached by probably the most highly rated coach in the country, we're coached by the guy who started the year as the youth team director. Its no wonder that as the game went on we lost our lead and you ran a way with it as its two good sets of players with two sets of wildly varying tactics (ours essentially being - don't drop the ball).

Re: Match Stats - Warrington (29/09/12) : Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:05 am  

Offside Monkey wrote:

snip

If all this was true how do you explain the stat that says Saints off-loaded twice as much as Warrington.

Re: Match Stats - Warrington (29/09/12) : Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:08 am  

Offside Monkey wrote:

Whilst you can deny it, there's a lot that rings true.
We gained 25% more yards than you through the match, despite you blitzing us for a large portion of the 2nd half.
The positives that we cling to but which you dispute are true, but they also go to demonstrate our major flaw, which is a lack of creative play. Our forwards had no problem gaining ground and holding possession, whilst at the same time restricting your yards in the first half whilst we were fresh. However, our attack is 1 dimensional and easy to read. Whilst the forwards can get up field and drive your guys back, the lack of any width means that, apart from the actual wrestle in contact, its not causing the defence to work hard. On the flip side, Wire (and pretty much every other team) shift the ball significantly more from side to side, moving the defence with them, probing and causing more sliding and even scrambling defence. This meant that as the game went on, Warrington's energy levels didn't decline as fast as ours.
Also add to the that the mental side of things, the Saints forwards winning the territory and possesion battle, but converting generally few chances. The Wire forwards know that every other time they get down our end they'll score, since our defence out wide is poor against a good running line and your have a strong tactic with the Briers kick to Monoghan. That sort of thing allowed Wire to grow in confidence as the game went on.

Everytime we lose by more than a few points, there's some poster on here telling us how terrible we are and how we are inferior in every single area to them. It wasn't long ago we had a certain Wigan poster on here telling us how not a single saints forward would be worth a place in his teams pack.Wire are coached by probably the most highly rated coach in the country, we're coached by the guy who started the year as the youth team director. Its no wonder that as the game went on we lost our lead and you ran a way with it as its two good sets of players with two sets of wildly varying tactics (ours essentially being - don't drop the ball).

Still makes me laugh even now does that

All absolutely true anyway. I think the 2 playoff games have pretty much proved our strengths and weaknesses conclusively - we outplayed the 2nd best pack in the league twice in quick succession and I don't know how much more proof of the basic quality of our 8-13 anyone would need than that. Similarly the fact that we couldn't score from 10 yards out for most of the first half proves how awful our backs have been this year...

Oh, and let's not forget that our forwards' yardage stats were diminished by the fact that many of their runs in the first half started from inside the opposition's 10 yard line, and it's difficult to rack up extreme yardage if you're running from 10 yards out and can't score all the time...

Re: Match Stats - Warrington (29/09/12) : Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:09 am  

Paul Youane wrote:

If all this was true how do you explain the stat that says Saints off-loaded twice as much as Warrington.

...we're better offloaders than you?

Re: Match Stats - Warrington (29/09/12) : Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:31 am  

Paul Youane wrote:

If all this was true how do you explain the stat that says Saints off-loaded twice as much as Warrington.

It still leaves us playing reletively narrow to you.
If our pack wasn't a handful, you wouldn't have spent the whole 1st half in your own half of the pitch and indeed, we wouldn't have been afforded so many offloads.

Re: Match Stats - Warrington (29/09/12) : Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:05 pm  

imo ,you can make what you wish as far as match stats go ,i tend to just watch the game and look at the scoreboard ,hey,it works for me

Re: Match Stats - Warrington (29/09/12) : Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:12 pm  

wireflyer33 wrote:

imo ,you can make what you wish as far as match stats go ,i tend to just watch the game and look at the scoreboard ,hey,it works for me

Brilliant. We might aswell close up the discussion boards now, then.

Re: Match Stats - Warrington (29/09/12) : Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:27 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

Brilliant. We might aswell close up the discussion boards now, then.

fs chill out stats can be made to mean anything you wish them too,again, -->imo,you have yours i have mine,roll on g/f day see what stats they throw up