Re: Proud to be a Saint : Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:45 am  

Mugwump wrote:

NO ONE was tipping Saints to finish fourth or fifth at the start of this season. No one.

Alot of people had us down to finish 3rd though and that's where we ended up. I would say we pretty much hit expectations. Warrington, Leeds and Wigan on their day are a better side than us with the current sides and it would take them to have an off day and us to be at our best to get the better of them (like two weeks ago against Warrington).

We need to sort our half backs out and get some strike in the backline as we have the pack to compete with anyone. Manu will only enhance that next season.

Re: Proud to be a Saint : Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:52 am  

Mugwump wrote:

More revisionist nonsense. Let's take a moment to return to the season before this one. Like this season our start to that campaign was a total calamity. We lost our star scrum half - the man we were banking years of success on - Eastmond and the team was in disarray. Then, completely out of the blue, we turned things round entirely and set forth on a tremendous winning run with two young and inexperienced halves - Lomax & Gaskell (indeed, these boards were "Lomaskell" crazy!). All thoughts of Eastmond were vaporised and we played some of the best rugby seen at the club in the last two years. Yes, we lost the Grand Final. But AT THAT POINT we had EVERY REASON to be optimistic for this season. Of course, there was the substantial problem of dealing with the loss of Graham - but in the context of modest signings made by pretty much every other SL club - Hohaia, Laffranchi and company looked like very useful assets. We could also count on a fully fit Soliola - which was effectively a new signing in itself. I don't recall too many people slagging off the signing of LMS. Moreover, Shenton looked like hitting some semblance of form (we desperately missed him in the GF) - both Makinson and Dixon ended that campaign looking like nailed on certainties etc.

NO ONE was tipping Saints to finish fourth or fifth at the start of this season. No one.

It was only AFTER our form collapsed under Simmons that suddenly everyone began to change their opinions and revise expectations. To claim otherwise is simply a lie. This is not to say a GF victory was a foregone conclusion - but if at the very start of this season someone had prophesied the breaking up of Lomax & Gaskell partnership, the collapse of the team under Simmons (who had led a team of kids ALMOST to the title) the loaning of Foster to Hull and the reversal in Dixon's form, the utter failure of Hohaia etc. etc. they would have been laughed at.

I should add one further point to the above. At the beginning of this season Eamonn McManus stated in public that he believed the side was ready to win the Grand Final. Indeed, it was this statement that made me realise very early on that Simmons' job was in jeopardy and I was one of the earliest to suggest he was on the verge of being canned. Regardless of what people believed the relative strengths of the side were it was patently obvious that McMANUS thought it good enough to secure the championship.

Re: Proud to be a Saint : Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:01 am  

Blobbynator wrote:

Alot of people had us down to finish 3rd though and that's where we ended up. I would say we pretty much hit expectations. Warrington, Leeds and Wigan on their day are a better side than us with the current sides and it would take them to have an off day and us to be at our best to get the better of them (like two weeks ago against Warrington).

We need to sort our half backs out and get some strike in the backline as we have the pack to compete with anyone. Manu will only enhance that next season.

After Simmons went I was expecting us to finish outside the top 4, almost 20 games in we were fighting for 5th place with Leeds and Hull.

To get to 3rd place we had to beat every team above us who had pretty decent half backs in there team. We did just that, which I considered was some achievement to put us in an unexpected position.

So what for next season, deja vu perhaps as the half back situations looks unlikely to be resolved........we await with uncertain expectation.

Re: Proud to be a Saint : Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:05 am  

Blobbynator wrote:

Alot of people had us down to finish 3rd though and that's where we ended up. I would say we pretty much hit expectations.

So you EXPECTED the partnership of Lomax & Gaskell (which had functioned more than effectively since the loss of Eastmond - and looked like being the foundation for years to come) to not just fall apart, but break up entirely leaving Gaskell in the wildnerness?

You EXPECTED Lance Hohaia to offer little more than what we might expect from a journeyman or rookie?

I wouldn't demand that you be clairvoyant but let's be honest here - we had good reason to believe we'd bank big on at least two out of three of the above. If you're telling me you had a hunch Hohaia would bomb completely, Lomax would go backwards and Gaskell would go further (to the point where he's kicking his heels in the academy and possibly on the verge of leaving) then you should certainly put some money on next week's lottery.

And I haven't even mentioned selling Shenton, loaning Foster to Hull, the collapse in Dixon's form, the complete non-entity that was Jon Wilkin (c), TM, All Rights Reserved.

Re: Proud to be a Saint : Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:16 am  

I expected a partnership of Lomax and Hohaia because Simmons said that's what he'd go with before a ball was kicked. It's not something I agreed with and I've said all season Gaskell should be in there, but after bringing Hohaia in to play in the halves he was always going to play there.

I was dubious about Hohaia playing in the halves as his NRL pedigree has always been as a full back and in recent years at hooker but I hoped he would prove better than what he has done. He's been a massive disappointment this year and I honestly don't know where he fits in under Brown.

Re: Proud to be a Saint : Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:33 am  

Blobbynator wrote:

I expected a partnership of Lomax and Hohaia because Simmons said that's what he'd go with before a ball was kicked.

I don't remember him saying that but even if he did, he didn't play that partnership. He played Lomax and Gaskell, with Hohaia off the bench. So either he didn't actually say it or he changed his mind. Either way, by his actions he clearly wanted to play Gaskell and Lomax. He may not have had any choice but to take on Hohaia. All I can say for certain is that Simmons reported that McManus had asked him for feedback on halfbacks down under and Simmons said there was hardly anything out there but Hohaia was probably the best bet. Other clubs are now finding that there is hardly anything out there, as can be evidenced by recent recruitments at halfback.

It's not something I agreed with and I've said all season Gaskell should be in there, but after bringing Hohaia in to play in the halves he was always going to play there.

As I said above, clearly he wasn't. It was only when Simmons was sacked that Hohaia started playing in the halves.

Re: Proud to be a Saint : Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:38 am  

Blobbynator wrote:

I expected a partnership of Lomax and Hohaia because Simmons said that's what he'd go with before a ball was kicked. It's not something I agreed with and I've said all season Gaskell should be in there, but after bringing Hohaia in to play in the halves he was always going to play there.

There was plenty of speculation that Hohaia had been guaranteed the stand-off slot but I don't recall Simmons ever making cast iron guarantees. I can't say for sure of course but just thinking about this rationally it would be madness to do so. What we DO know is that for a guy reputedly "guaranteed" the stand-off position he spent remarkably little time occupying it under Simmons, which suggests to me that he always considered him a utility player and not Gaskell's superior. This seems logical given that Simmons had shown enormous faith in Gaskell - backing him even when he had the odd iffy game the season prior - and I just can't imagine someone as affable as Simmons shafting the kid he'd staked his mortgage on for the best part of a season.

I was dubious about Hohaia playing in the halves as his NRL pedigree has always been as a full back and in recent years at hooker but I hoped he would prove better than what he has done. He's been a massive disappointment this year and I honestly don't know where he fits in under Brown.

You haven't answered the question. Given that the "Lomaskell" partnership was integral to Saints' chances this season - along with additional experience of Hohaia lending a hand - did you think it was likely (not "possible", as just about anything is possible in RL including Francis Meli not having a big game howler) that it would collapse completely, with Lomax (a nailed on certainty for this season if anyone was) going backwards quicker than the Italian army, Gaskell unable to get a game and Hohaia providing little of substantial value?

My guess is you did not. Which means we certainly underachieved.

Re: Proud to be a Saint : Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:43 am  

Blobbynator wrote:

I expected a partnership of Lomax and Hohaia because Simmons said that's what he'd go with before a ball was kicked. It's not something I agreed with and I've said all season Gaskell should be in there, but after bringing Hohaia in to play in the halves he was always going to play there.

I was dubious about Hohaia playing in the halves as his NRL pedigree has always been as a full back and in recent years at hooker but I hoped he would prove better than what he has done. He's been a massive disappointment this year and I honestly don't know where he fits in under Brown.

For next year I can only see him as a bench player a role he was doing in the NRL, hopefully Brown will see that as well.

I,m suprised no one has mentioned Roby,s game this year, for me he is still doing a lot of industrious work but the variety and unpredictabilty has suffered this season. For me I would give him some short spells at 13 with Hohaia going in at 9, a position he has looked better at than 1 or 6.

So we go back to Gaskell, its that long ago, but I can only recall one good game from him in the very limited opportunity he has had, again I hope Brown is able to do some serious work with the "Lomax/Gaskell" off season, thats assuming Gaskell is still with us for next season and is not at Salford.

I can,t imagine the club will stick with the failed half back situation and repeat the same fiasco for next season. Will the club have something up there sleeve, I don't know a couple of months of uncertainity for us at the moment.

Re: Proud to be a Saint : Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:51 am  

If Gaskell leaves McManus' consistent trumpeting of the academy will begin to look increasingly cynical.

Re: Proud to be a Saint : Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:55 am  

Mugwump wrote:

If Gaskell leaves McManus' consistent trumpeting of the academy will begin to look increasingly cynical.

To me it looks that way anyway after the way the young players have been treated this season.