Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:46 am  

BackrowSaint wrote:

I agree, but a lot of people are too blinded by the past that they either won't or can't admit it. Wellens has been a great player for us but sadly doesn't contribute enough anymore to warrant being in a top 4 side. He made 2 good contributions tonight, catching a bomb and putting Shenton through for his try. Other than that he was constantly late getting to attacks, threw the ball on the floor a couple of times and killed possession.

We can't stretch a defence out wide like Wigan and Wire do and its mainly because Wellens movement across the back and into the line is so easy to monitor. Hohaia proved his pace last night tracking down Myler and we know he can be dangerous with the ball in hand.

We've based our revival on a % game, but surely that lends itself to picking a standoff with a kicking game, rather than a player based on the odd bit of flair. Lance can be dangerous, but I'm afraid our ball movement, when compare to the W's is poor. Gaskell should be #6 - The team would be much better off for it.

As most of us mentioned, we were worried about Wire's ability to up the intensity. We've had a poor line speed since Royce took over and that hasn't really improved. Wire came on to the ball at pace and our failure to meet them properly meant they were getting easy yards, landing on the front foot and getting offloads away without a problem.

Our players didn't disgrace themselves. I thought we had good games from Perry, Clough, LMS, I thought Dixon played well when he came on. I thought Shenton was good with ball in hand, despite getting a few hospital passes (although I haven't rewatched the Waterhouse try, which could have been a black mark to him), but as a whole, much like the Wigan games, Wire played 10% quicker/keener/more agressive across the park which left us with little chances. If we can flick that switch and gear things up (like Leeds do when its needed), then we will be be a true threat to the clubs above us, but untill then........

Final remark - Ben Westwood. What an animal. he way he trucked the ball up was immense

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:56 am  

Willie Manu will add some much needed fire power to our pack but we still are in dire need of a prop.

Tommy makinson is a real worry for me now, he's very low on confidence and Warrington had his number all night and it was clear from the first min what they was going to do with tommy.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:03 am  

St pete wrote:

Willie Manu will add some much needed fire power to our pack but we still are in dire need of a prop.

Tommy makinson is a real worry for me now, he's very low on confidence and Warrington had his number all night and it was clear from the first min what they was going to do with tommy.

He'll come through, he's got some great qualities and seems like a solid character.
A few weeks ago he was picking bombs out the air for fun, but he seems to have the colly woblles with them at the moment.
Also, whilst it was a great effort to get riley into touch, he'd drifted in towards the centre, which is something he's been guilty of doing earlier in his career. As you say, if we can get his confidence back up, these things should dissapear.

As we mentioned before the game, playing puletua wide of the ruck completely marginalises him. Whilst he was ok in his stint later in the game, on the whole he was anonymous. They'd have been better playing Laffranchi out there and Puletua in the middle.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:39 am  

Offside Monkey wrote:

He'll come through, he's got some great qualities and seems like a solid character.

The one saving grace for Makinson is that the fans don't seem to identify him as a scapegoat. Had that been Jamie Foster last night, there would have been pitchforks and torches and a mass witch hunt.

Makinson should be playing fullback, he should have been playing fullback for 2 years. I think we're going to ruin the potential he's got, he doesn't seem comfortable on the wing and he isn't playing well this season.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:16 am  

St pete wrote:

Willie Manu will add some much needed fire power to our pack but we still are in dire need of a prop.

Tommy makinson is a real worry for me now, he's very low on confidence and Warrington had his number all night and it was clear from the first min what they was going to do with tommy.

In hindsight do you not feel you missed a trick not signing Chris Hill last season? I know Purtill and others from Saints came to Leigh and watched him quite a bit last season and his ability was there for all to see. Saints had eyes on him way before Warrington came onto the scene and yet seemed to hesitate, and hesitate and eventually he got an offer from Wire instead.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:20 am  

Nozzy wrote:

In hindsight do you not feel you missed a trick not signing Chris Hill last season? I know Purtill and others from Saints came to Leigh and watched him quite a bit last season and his ability was there for all to see. Saints had eyes on him way before Warrington came onto the scene and yet seemed to hesitate, and hesitate and eventually he got an offer from Wire instead.

Absolutely. I was gutted when he signed for Wire, he's a class act.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:49 am  

Nozzy wrote:

In hindsight do you not feel you missed a trick not signing Chris Hill last season? I know Purtill and others from Saints came to Leigh and watched him quite a bit last season and his ability was there for all to see. Saints had eyes on him way before Warrington came onto the scene and yet seemed to hesitate, and hesitate and eventually he got an offer from Wire instead.

Yes we did miss out on hill and we also missed out on ratchford as well, they are two good young British players.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:27 am  

Our biggest problem is in defence where we were found wanting again in the collision and speed of PTBs. We couldn't slow down Warrington and Tony Smith, being the very good coach that he is, did the same as the pies do against us. Suck us in with the quick PTB then throw it out wide.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:36 am  

McClennan wrote:

Our biggest problem is in defence where we were found wanting again in the collision and speed of PTBs. We couldn't slow down Warrington and Tony Smith, being the very good coach that he is, did the same as the pies do against us. Suck us in with the quick PTB then throw it out wide.

We don't work hard enough or show enough aggression. I was amazed at how much work Warrington do after the initial contact. They are doing what Wigan did last season and getting as many into the tackle as possible, with at least one and often two or three joining after the initial contact, just to slow the resultant play the ball down and minimise the chance of an offload. They also work really hard to turn the player round or over. We don't do any of that.

We're too disciplined in general. It was amazing how much ground Warrington stole last night by moving off the mark. They were walking forwards to play the ball, stealing two or three steps. I really hope Brown makes us more ruthless, numbers in the tackle and more aggression are things we need to focus on.

Re: Prop and stand off : Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:55 am  

Line speed & aggression badly missing last night. I thought we were equally lazy in attack. One man rugby with no running options or support which is so easy to defend against. I dont like Hohaia, he'll never be a half back as long as he has a hole in his ass, but no one running lines or hitting holes makes it even harder.
These tactics dont work against the top sides. Would rather go out "having a go". Next three games gives us the chance to implement some changes & experiment. We currently have no plan B.
Blood Makinson at full back, Gaskell in at six, & interchange Roby & Lance with Roby spelling at loose forward.