Re: SL standards plummeting : Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:23 am  

Cragganmore Kid wrote:

Surely, though, this forces the development of more creative halves over the longer term? Quick PTBs might lead to high scoring games, but it values the speed and awareness of a hooker over any other position. There's no need to use guile, clever plays etc to break a team down, just the ability to toss the ball quickly through your legs when you're half tackled.

As soon as a ref allows slower ptbs ( classically, at international level) or when teams slow it down by employing tactics intended just for that (see Wigan and Hudds of a season or two ago) a team is immediately rendered impotent.

IMO, it's a key reason why Aussie halves are infinitely better, there's no obsession there with having the tackled cleared within a nanosecond. Get the lines set, then let's see what you've got.m

I'd say it's actually a way to increase standards, though granted there will be a transitional period before the rewards come.

I,m not sure if we are going to develop half backs due to the manner we play in superleague with forward drives and a kick. Perhaps with more skilful forwards with good offloads to get half backs into potential gaps.
Can,t think of any English half backs that can unlock a tight defence, most of these in superleague are from the southern hemisphere. Thats proably why we have Widdop and Chase in our international side.
We will never catch up to NRL because our standard will be forever a transitional one. Its a pity we haven,t got 2 off Sam Tomkins operating at 6 and 7.

Re: SL standards plummeting : Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:34 am  

Dux wrote:

I think we need to remember that the stricter overseas player regulations were always going to result in a gradual decline in standards for at least the short to medium term. Now that players with exemptions are starting to retire in numbers we're seeing that decline happen. It's not ideal, but I think it's a hit worth taking if we want to improve the way we produce young players across the competition.

Saddened! is right about the number of teams, though. Just before we went up to 14 teams I reckon we had the most competitive SL there has ever been. Again, this decision was made with a bigger picture in mind (basically to allow the introduction of Crusaders IIRC), but one which ultimately proved to be misguided. I reckon a move back down to 12 teams would make a significant difference to the standard of the league. If you pooled together the playing squads of the bottom four clubs I think you could put together two presentable sides.

Something needs to be done and quickly to address this situation. I think 12 teams would be a good start, but still too many when you consider the lack of both number and quality of imports in the future, not to mention the amount of our own higer end players that are likely to be targetted by the big-money NRL. Personally I would move back to ten as soon as is legally possible.

Re: SL standards plummeting : Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:01 pm  

The worst scenario is when our best players realise superleague is of such a low standard that they jump at the chance of going to OZ. We then have a situation where nearly all our international players are in the NRL. Our superleague then becomes a bi product for SKY and loses complete credability in the sporting world, whilst the RFL stick there head in the sand and every financial year announce we have made a profit.

Re: SL standards plummeting : Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:08 pm  

Most of you may know that I'm not one for being critical of SL playing standards but I have to agree about quality when we talk about defences. Attacking wise the competition isn't a disaster but defensively we've gone backwards. Having never been a fan of increasing the number of teams in the competition to fourteen I'm loathe to suggest another issue that contributes more to the reduction in quality than this. There hasn't been enough talent in the UK to sustain so many clubs. Until this is tackled it makes it difficult to raise other issues because the size of the talent pool available is such a major contributor to the overall quality of the competition and as long as that is the case we're not giving ourselves the best opportunity to present the sport at the level that it deserves.

Re: SL standards plummeting : Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:14 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

I,m not sure if we are going to develop half backs due to the manner we play in superleague with forward drives and a kick. Perhaps with more skilful forwards with good offloads to get half backs into potential gaps.
Can,t think of any English half backs that can unlock a tight defence, most of these in superleague are from the southern hemisphere. Thats proably why we have Widdop and Chase in our international side.
We will never catch up to NRL because our standard will be forever a transitional one. Its a pity we haven,t got 2 off Sam Tomkins operating at 6 and 7.

It will take coaches to realise that 5 drives and a kick doesn't win you trophies. The fact you can't think of any English halfbacks who can open up a defence is evidence, IMO, that we've neglected developing that skill because it hasn't been as important as quick ptb and scooting. When the quick ptb is removed from the game, other methods will need to be used and maybe we will see upcoming English halves concentrating on this element of their game rather than seeing yet more broken field support players with no organisational skills.

IMO, a Tomkins at 6 and 7 wouldn't work; he is the best broken field runner in the country but couldn't led a team around the field, orchestrate the line to open gaps etc.

Re: SL standards plummeting : Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:35 pm  

Webbo wrote:

Pretty much agree with all that.

Let's also not forget that SL moved away from the exciting spectacle it was becoming, with strictly-enforced 10m defensive lines and defending players having to get off the tackled player quickly. Yes, there were some cricket-score results (we still do...), but players were coming to terms with the changes. What it did do is make defences work hard and have to be top drawer, whilst skillful, entertaining players had space to work in. After SL abandoned this and allowed slowing of PTB's and shorter defence lines, defences had it too easy and it became more the 'big bloke' slugathon we have today.

The 'scootathon' rugby mentality was the reason we were getting smashed by the Aussies/Kiwis. All we were doing is producing scooting hookers. The hope is that now we start producing hookers and 3/4s that can actual control a game without relying on getting 10 cheap metres by running from dummy half every play.

Re: SL standards plummeting : Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:52 pm  

P-J wrote:

The 'scootathon' rugby mentality was the reason we were getting smashed by the Aussies/Kiwis. All we were doing is producing scooting hookers. The hope is that now we start producing hookers and 3/4s that can actual control a game without relying on getting 10 cheap metres by running from dummy half every play.

The reason we get smashed by them is because they have larger talent pools to select from. It's not rocket surgery.

Re: SL standards plummeting : Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:00 pm  

McClennan wrote:

The reason we get smashed by them is because they have larger talent pools to select from. It's not rocket surgery.

What exactly would that be then?

Re: SL standards plummeting : Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:11 pm  

BackrowSaint wrote: What exactly would that be then? Do keep up old boy

BackrowSaint wrote: What exactly would that be then? Do keep up old boy

Re: SL standards plummeting : Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:21 pm  

McClennan wrote:

The reason we get smashed by them is because they have larger talent pools to select from. It's not rocket surgery.

Oh well then. Let's not even bother turning up next time.