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Re: It's time to pull the trigger : Mon May 14, 2012 10:16 am  
Obviously the loss of Graham, the best prop in SL if not the world has left a massive hole, but the main problem for me is the recruitment. Hohia, Lanfranchi and Perry for me are very disappointing. I always liked Mark Flanagan at Wigan and thought he would go well for you, but he too doesn't to seem to have improved since his time in the NRL.

Both teams were poor in a poor game on Sat, but like it or not, we are the much better unit at present.
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Re: It's time to pull the trigger : Mon May 14, 2012 10:17 am  
Saint Simon wrote:
Perhaps, but we're in danger of losing decent replacements for him be it Ashe, Makinson or who ever because they wont wait forever

I agree with that. Saints have been prone of late to waiting too long to replace senior players. Wello has been a fantastic servant and an outstanding player but I think we need to make changes.
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Re: It's time to pull the trigger : Mon May 14, 2012 10:18 am  
(Saint) wrote:
Wello was the only back who ran with any enthusiasm or aggression whatsoever.


Maybe, but he did that into the first tackler and stopped there.

(Saint) wrote:
I'm not saying he's Billy Slater but in a horrible, spineless team performance which completely lacked any direction or leadership.


I like this, you are praising him with a criticism. He is the captain, so if the performance is horrible and spineless he's got a big part to play in that. He's the worst choice of a captain ever. He's so negative and bitter, spending half his time on the field flapping his arms at the referees and having tantrums.

(Saint) wrote:
I'm still thankful he's there in big, pressure games like that which is why I'd give him another year.


Do you not think there is a problem in that we never win those big, pressure games anymore?
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Re: It's time to pull the trigger : Mon May 14, 2012 10:19 am  
Meli: I wondered how long it'd take until all our current woes were blamed on him.... All I'd ask the Meli haters is this: without him in the team, where the heck would we have generated any attacking threat out wide at all since Gidley got old and ineffective? Our backplay has been chronically awful for years now and the only cutting edge we've had at all out there has been down to him. Noone has spat bile in his direction more times than me after his O/T brain explosions. Noone was happier than me when he couldn't get a work permit a few years back. But since then he has improved his defence immeasurably and (most of the time) is fairly reliable defending kicks (not that any of you one-eyed numpties would ever recognise that fact). He has been Saints' most consistent and most dangerous player over the last 3.5 years, works his booty off and puts the fear of the almighty into opposition defences unlkike any of our other backs at the moment. But of course none of that matters as he was awful and unreliable 4 or 5 years ago and so will never be forgiven by the numpty brigade. Just unbelievable.... He'll leave at the end of the season with my thanks and appreciation, and **** the rest of you.

Wellens: His deficiencies are overestimated but time is undoubtedly catching up with him nevertheless and it's difficult to see how much longer he can carry on back there. Problem is that every time you convince yourself it's time to move on he'll pull a blinder out of the bag and convince you otherwise... He's just such an important player to the Saints setup at the moment and needs to play somewhere and #1 is about the only realistic candidate. And he's Wello.... Ngggggg..... can't decide on this one....

Wheeler: No player has ever frustrated me like him... One of the best talents in the game at the moment and a future Saints legend in the making but you despair of him ever putting an injury-free run together. This was his make-or-break season for me and so far it's been more of the latter than the former. One or two great games a season in between rehabilitation sessions is just no way to progress a career and it's going to be hard to keep him if it keeps up. He's got another year after this one so all hope is not lost yet. He'll come back to haunt us if/when we do release him....

Shenton: Terrible, terrible disappointment so far. Unfair to put the final judgment in on him until he has a run playing fit in a team that gives him the ball occasionally however, neither of which he has had at Saints at any stage. He's here for next season more than likely whatever so we'll see how he goes under Brown - I reckon we'll see a rather different player then. At least I bloody well hope so...

Gardner: He was a liabilty a few seasons ago, and so is naturally a liability for the entire rest of his career no matter what happens - it is the Saints' fan's way. A good solid player who (when at his best) will never let you down, can finish well and who will do the hard graft, and who has been in fantastic form the last 2 seasons in between the injuries. I'd love to see someone with some pace and threat out there instead but there isn't anyone available, so Ade will have to do until there is.

Perry: Has hardly had a run fit but has been very disappointing when he has. Not the signing advertised at all. There's still a bit of time for him to pull it around in time for the playoffs, but I doubt it. The injury just looks to have taken too much out of him and he'll likely never rise above the "decent performer" level again. Back to Oz he goes at the soonest available opportunity probably.

Hohaia: Remains a baffling signing. Obviously a very good player, but is playing in a team that has nowhere for him to play and is cobbled into a completely unsuitable position. That coupled with apparent problems settling in is making for an embarassing disaster. Hopefully we can negotiate an end to this shocking 4 year deal in the summer and get some balance back in the squad with the money instead. At the moment his main purpose in the side is to keep Gaskell out of the firing line until he's bulked up and developed a bit, so I'll just console myself that he's doing a valuable job in that way.
Last edited by Northampton_Saint on Mon May 14, 2012 11:55 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: It's time to pull the trigger : Mon May 14, 2012 10:22 am  
pondmonster wrote:
Hohia, Lanfranchi and Perry for me are very disappointing. I always liked Mark Flanagan at Wigan and thought he would go well for you, but he too doesn't to seem to have improved since his time in the NRL.

Laffranchi has been our best forward this season (behind Robes, obviously) and is a very good player. He isn't our problem. Flanagan also has been a good player, especially in defence. Again, he is not our problem. Hohaia has been a disappointment and I am now of the view that he isn't halfback material. He should be dropped from that position and Gaskell reintroduced (with proper support from the coaching staff) to see if he can regain his form of last year. Meli shouldn't play again and Perry should be advised to look for another club. Given that we are now out of the Cup and young players helped to get us to the GF last year, we should go with our young players again and see if they can inject some enthusiasm back into the team. They might also get some of the senior players worried enough to prompt them into working hard for a full 80 minutes, something a few of them have consistently failed to do all season.
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Re: It's time to pull the trigger : Mon May 14, 2012 10:26 am  
Northampton_Saint wrote:
Meli: I wondered how long it'd take until all our current woes were blamed on him.... All I'd ask the Meli haters is this: without him in the team, where the heck would we have generated any attacking threat out wide at all since Gidley got old and ineffective?

Meli is only an attacking threat from within the 10 metre line, with the odd exception, and any attack he may be involved with he negates by his defensive errors and general laziness. He didn't look for work on Saturday, unlike his counterpart on our right flank, and his effort at defence was pitiful, comprising running alongside the Wigan winger until someone else tackled him. That took place right in front of me.

Only a few are deluded about Meli. I would bet that most Saints fans wanted him gone after the second Grand Final he messed up. But after the last one, when we had to rely on him out of sheer desperation due to reduced numbers, he should never have played another game in the red vee. He is a waste of a shirt and one of our young upcoming guys should be taking his spot.
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Re: It's time to pull the trigger : Mon May 14, 2012 10:30 am  
Saddened! wrote:
I like this, you are praising him with a criticism. He is the captain, so if the performance is horrible and spineless he's got a big part to play in that. He's the worst choice of a captain ever. He's so negative and bitter, spending half his time on the field flapping his arms at the referees and having tantrums.


You do know that there are 16 other players that contribute to a poor team performance, and it isn't all Wellens' fault? For what it's worth I agree that he's part of the problem that we lack leadership, but ultimately no one else is stepping up either, so how can you hold him fully accountable? Who would you make captain, out of interest?

Do you not think there is a problem in that we never win those big, pressure games anymore?


Except we do, we beat Wigan in two high-pressure playoff games last year to make the Grand Final and Wellens was instrumental in both. Or are you just griping that we haven't won the Grand Final since 2006 and the collective burden on the 30 or 40 players who've represented us in this combined games somehow should come down on Wellens' back?

All I said was that he was one of our better players at the weekend (not difficult) and I still have faith in him to be in the squad next year.
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Re: It's time to pull the trigger : Mon May 14, 2012 10:34 am  
The problem you have stretches back a few years.

Your team are getting old and you've done nothing about it, apart from signing old Aussies.

Last season you looked great. Lomax and Gaskell were on fire, so what do you do? Drop Gaskell (the better of the two players!), bring Lance Hohaia into your side and play him out of position. Stupid.

Wellens is too old and slow for playing full back now. He'd be better off in the centres to tighten up the defence. Yes, I know Brett Finch walked past him on Saturday, but that was more to do with his lack of pace than technique. In a proper defensive line, I'm sure he would be as solid as anyone.

There are many other things wrong, but a good start would be to put Hohaia at full back, where he belongs (or even better, on a plane back to New Zealand), put Wellens in the centres and bring Lee Gaskell back.

Now, whilst I love it when Wigan give Saints a damn good tonking or ten, I still want to see a competitive Saints side in Super League, so you can take me seriously when I say I do hope you sort yourselves out.
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Re: It's time to pull the trigger : Mon May 14, 2012 10:37 am  
SaintsFan wrote:

On Saturday Wello and Makinson were our best players. The majority of the remainder were a very mixed bag and some should not have been played at all. However, those 'some' will be played against Leeds and in all our games regardless of how poorly they perform because they are senior players and these days it would seem they are beyond reproach.


I would agree with that. Wellens didn't have a great game, but you cannot knock his effort. Same with Makinson.
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Re: It's time to pull the trigger : Mon May 14, 2012 11:41 am  
Again, I'm completely baffled by the TV pundits' bagging of our pack. I thought it performed pretty well. Indeed, in the first twenty minutes (when Roby was getting enough go-forward to spring him from the dummy half) I thought it was outstanding. Sure, Perry looks like he could do with losing an extra six pounds or so - but even so, he wasn't THAT bad. The problem for me - which has been the problem all season - is no matter how hard the pack works there is NOTHING outside to capitalize on its efforts. It must be infuriating being a Saints forward right now - here they are doing all the hard graft, providing the platform for our backs to provide the cutting edge and whenever the ball moves twelve feet either side of the posts it stops dead (or worse).

Even if we had any decent backs there is no play-making scrum half to give them the ball! Worse still, we can't keep opponents off us because we don't have any kicking game to speak of. If ever there was a recipe for catastrophe this is it.

In retrospect it was a mistake to jettison some of the youngsters in favour of bringing back Wheeler and Wilkin. Neither was anywhere near effective with the former being something of a liability. I guess it's the kind of error you expect from a new coach - trusting to experience over youth in big matches. But both Rush & Keiron are going to have to learn quickly if we are to salvage anything from this season.

Priority #1 - Bring back Gaskell. He might be undercooked in terms of physique - but he's the only halfback we have with a kicking game who can also organise the attack. Gaskell is our future and the sooner we begin to mould the team around his talents the sooner we're likely to dig ourselves out of this mess.

Swift, Jones & Makinson must also be fast-tracked into regular first team action. Makinson is ready now whilst Jones' freakish physique should allow him to stand up to SL punishment. Swift is the biggest risk because his body isn't quite there yet - but if it's a choice between the standard sub-standard tripe served up by Meli & Gardner and taking a chance on a rookie I'll take the latter every time.

But by far the toughest decision is Wellens. Both Rush & Cunningham have a long history with Wello. I imagine they are good friends. Which will make the job of moving him out of full-back all that harder. I suspect they won't have the stones to make that call. But they have to.
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