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Re: Spent force : Sun May 13, 2012 10:48 am  
I really don't understand fans falling over themselves to bash our pack. I thought it was pretty effective yesterday. Indeed, I think it's been effective in the overwhelming majority of games this season.

Yes, some forwards did drop off tackles yesterday - but most of these mistakes were in the final twenty minutes when the game seemed lost. Prior to that I thought our forwards stood up to Wigan pretty well.

Unfortunately, the same cannot be said about our backline which leaks opportunities like a busted water pipe. On reflection it was a mistake to bring back Wheeler in a game this big. Together with Shenton and Meli he made Wigan's task of breaching our defence very easy. I really can't recall any Saints side over the last twenty years which has been this woeful defending down the channels.

This problem is further exacerbated by our inability to keep opponents off us through our one-dimensional attacking and kicking which is giving them up to twenty yards per set. Wigan's kicking penned Wellens back to his goal line whereas ours regularly gave them tackle zero anywhere up to the half way mark.

I've been saying Lomax isn't a scrum half since the beginning of the season. Yes, he has the ability to unlock the weaker sides. But any team serving up a cohesive and determined defence will nullify him completely. This is not to say I think Lomax is a poor player. He's just being asked to perform a task his (copious) talents aren't suited to.

Gaskell is the future in terms of playmaking. Right now he's not physically ready to perform this task on a regular basis and I think one of the reasons he's been kept out of the side is to work on his frame. Hopefully he's bulked up a bit but we're going to have to wait until probably next season before we see any serious benefits.

Again, I think our best option is to shunt Hohaia to scrum half where he can work in tandem with Gaskell. I'd then divide the hooking responsibilities between Lomax and Roby (making us far less predictable in that area) with Roby moving to loose forward when Lomax occupies the spot.

At fullback we need to look seriously at phasing in either Makinson or possibly Swift. Josh Jones has done enough (and is physically developed enough) to warrant a long-term spot. Shenton is a waste of time right now. Yes, he's still recovering from injury - but this doesn't mean we can allow a player to continuously turn out sub-standard performances without taking action. Ditto Wheeler. I've given this lad plenty of latitude over the past few years but my patience is now at and end. I said earlier this year that he needs to cement his position this season or not at all. So far he has done little to nothing to achieve that aim. Meli? What more can be said about this guy. I simply can't think of any better symbol of Saints' failure in recruitment over the past five years than Meli. Last season he dodged a bullet by turning in some surprisingly good attacking displays in the centre but this season he's not even doing that. The guy is long past his sell-by date and we should look at other options in the academy.
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Re: Spent force : Sun May 13, 2012 11:24 am  
Lomax is a hooker playing scrum half. He also seems to have lost a yard of pace since last year for some reason? Maybe he bulked up too much in the off-season
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Re: Spent force : Sun May 13, 2012 11:45 am  
Northampton_Saint wrote:
This "Rogues Gallery" of whom you speak sounds like a visionary. Do you think he might have knowledge of how anything and everything Wigan is better than anything and everything anywhere else when most of it is utter fantasy and noone outside of Wigan actually gives a **** anyway? That's exactly the kind of thing we need to hear more of on a Saints forum and I hope he descends on us to spread this gospel forthwith.


I bet you were fun to be with yesterday. :D

0 -2 and then 4 -18.
Where did you watch the second game, or was that another game "that didn't matter"?
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Re: Spent force : Sun May 13, 2012 11:45 am  
Mugwump wrote:
Yes, some forwards did drop off tackles yesterday - but most of these mistakes were in the final twenty minutes when the game seemed lost. Prior to that I thought our forwards stood up to Wigan pretty well.

There you have a big problem in the team IMO. They should not be dropping off in the final 20 minutes. They should be working just as hard for the full 80 because we could have pulled back two tries in that 20 minutes (assuming the ability to score, obviously). This tendency to drop off in the second half is in direct contrast to last season.
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Re: Spent force : Sun May 13, 2012 12:33 pm  
sally cinnamon wrote:
Out of interest how far did you think Huddersfield were from being a decent side under Jon Sharp before Nathan Brown took over?


Giants had a top 6 squad under Sharp and underperformed finishing 10th.

Pre NB Giants had already signed Brett Hodgson a broadly unknown Lunt and Scott Moore. [we were able to make huge improvements at 9.]

NB had Paul Anderson, already an accomplished assistant coach.

NB was able to bring in a vastly improved conditioner.
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Re: Spent force : Sun May 13, 2012 12:36 pm  
So now that Gardner, Gaskell and Foster are out of the team the witch hunt turns to Shenton.
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Re: Spent force : Sun May 13, 2012 12:44 pm  
McClennan wrote:
So now that Gardner, Gaskell and Foster are out of the team the witch hunt turns to Shenton.

Shenton has been the subject of negative comments for a while now. Personally I just don't think his elbow is good. That strapping is massive.

I think Shenton would be helped enormously by actually having the ball passed to him sometimes. Our playmakers don't seem to believe in the existence of our right edge.
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Re: Spent force : Sun May 13, 2012 1:00 pm  
SaintsFan wrote:
Shenton has been the subject of negative comments for a while now. Personally I just don't think his elbow is good. That strapping is massive.

I think Shenton would be helped enormously by actually having the ball passed to him sometimes. Our playmakers don't seem to believe in the existence of our right edge.

the lack of ball to the right side is a joke. I was screaming for it to go that way. This needs to be sorted in training, and quickly. Its like attacking with half a team
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Re: Spent force : Sun May 13, 2012 1:07 pm  
There are a few problems, somethings can be altered now, but alot can't really change until the off season.

I actually think Wellens was one of our better backs yesterday, him and makinson stood out, were as the rest, well they didn't. But even with Wello being one of our better backs, it's all relative.

If we take each spot, we could put Lance at 1, or even makinson at 1, but then that put Wellens no where. Whilst some may rejoice at this, firstly it ain't going to happen and secondly it takes out Wello and puts who into the back line? Lance has not impressed me in any of his spots bar the leeds game, so putting him in for Wello is a none starter.
Half back we do have options, Gaskell was making errors early on in the season, but he was also doing stuff, kicking, passing, taking the ball 1st receiver, linking with Lomax and busting a gut running at the line and getting his head through. If people can't remember this then remember the verbals he got for not passing when he made his break.

Lance does none of the above, to be honest I'm not sure what he does do, and part of it maybe what was said by someone else if he is still running to dummy half.

The pack I thought did a job and whilst none of them made a killer blow in attack, they were solid defensively and gained Saints the majority of the possesion and territory. TP/Sia/Wilkin and Perry would be my suggestion as to who our attacking props are supposed to be. But with TP injured, Sia has not really been as blistering since his incident, Wilkin not seen much of this year and Perry AWOL going forwards, then it's not surprising that whilst being effective we are not turning teams around with the pack as basically every man in the pack offers the same type of game.

So in summary we have a pack that can do the basics very well, but nothing more to offer without TP playing or Sia getting his pre-incident game back.

Halfbacks are not what we need.

Backs, the experienced ones are not being effective, the young ones are making errors.
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Re: Spent force : Sun May 13, 2012 1:22 pm  
McClennan wrote:
So now that Gardner, Gaskell and Foster are out of the team the witch hunt turns to Shenton.


The daily star reporting today that we've signed turner and told shenton he's playing wing but he's not happy and linked with cas and hull.
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