Re: 19 man squad for Hull announced : Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:27 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Oh, I wouldn't worry. I'm used to his outbursts every now and again. It's probably the beer talking.

I've had few beers but believe me, it ain't the beer talking!

Re: 19 man squad for Hull announced : Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:29 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

Wilkin is a good player but not a great one in terms of saints players history. Frustrates me as well, he has some excellent games but not enough of them with the experience he has now he should be playing a regular pivotal role like Sinfield does at Leeds.
Thought he had an excellent game last week against Castleford though, like to see him do it week in week out. Maybe Royce can get him up to another level.

Spot on!

Re: 19 man squad for Hull announced : Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:35 pm  

St pete wrote:

I've had few beers but believe me, it ain't the beer talking!

You always say that and at some point in the future you admit that it was.

Re: 19 man squad for Hull announced : Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:38 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

If that is indeed what Pete is saying - and it never reads like that but I'll take your game on - then that might be because Wilkin isn't as good a player as Pete thinks he should be (which isn't Wilkin's fault so I really don't know why he should be criticised for it) or Wilkin has not been given the opportunity by successive coaches to develop as he should have been developed (which isn't Wilkin's fault either, so ditto). And that is not taking into consideration anybody's unrealistic expectations.

So it's my fault that wilkin ain't turned out better as my expectations of him are to high?

So its the succesive coaches fault for not develop his game further?

It's only one persons fault he's not developed into a better player and that is the player.

Re: 19 man squad for Hull announced : Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:41 pm  

Do you think wilkin is the type of player you thought he'd be when we signed him and his form in 2005/2006 ?

Don't dress your answer into a massive post to explain all you say. Just a yes or no please.

Re: 19 man squad for Hull announced : Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:56 pm  

St pete wrote:

It's only one persons fault he's not developed into a better player and that is the player.

But surely it is very difficult to develop into a better player if you are not given the opportunity to play in the position you are best suited? That is the responsibility of the coach. Also, if the coach is not inclined to provide guidance or feedback on ways in which to develop, it can be difficult for an individual to know how to develop. How do any of us know what we are good or bad at? I'd say by a mixture of reflection on our experiences and by feedback from other people.

Re: 19 man squad for Hull announced : Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:01 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

But surely it is very difficult to develop into a better player if you are not given the opportunity to play in the position you are best suited? That is the responsibility of the coach. Also, if the coach is not inclined to provide guidance or feedback on ways in which to develop, it can be difficult for an individual to know how to develop. How do any of us know what we are good or bad at? I'd say by a mixture of reflection on our experiences and by feedback from other people.

To be fair, he's only moved between 2nd row and loose forward ( odd game at 6 ).

It's not like he's being moved from the backrow to centre or fullback. He could play is natural game anywhere in the backrow.

Don't forget scully got moved about as young player between 2nd row, loose forward and then stand off. He adapted his game to the postion.


The was nothing to stop wilkin still showing his ball skills when he was 2nd row.

Re: 19 man squad for Hull announced : Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:04 pm  

St pete wrote:

To be fair, he's only moved between 2nd row and loose forward ( odd game at 6 ).

According to what he said in an article in the local rag earlier in the season he has been playing second row an awful lot over the last few years. But he said he wants to play loose and was glad to be playing there. He's also said similarly when on TV. Royce was playing him at loose until his injury at the England camp and he was looking extremely good.

Again, you are comparing him to Scully. Scully was Scully. Best left in the past IMO. I'd like to see Wilkin playing to his strengths so we will get the best out of him. He isn't Scully but he is a good player nonetheless and if his best is to be found at loose then that is where he should be played (catastrophic injuries allowing). IMO, obviously.

Re: 19 man squad for Hull announced : Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:08 pm  

St pete wrote:

Do you think wilkin is the type of player you thought he'd be when we signed him and his form in 2005/2006 ?

Don't dress your answer into a massive post to explain all you say. Just a yes or no please.

No in a word

Re: 19 man squad for Hull announced : Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:10 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

According to what he said in an article in the local rag earlier in the season he has been playing second row an awful lot over the last few years. But he said he wants to play loose and was glad to be playing there. He's also said similarly when on TV. Royce was playing him at loose until his injury at the England camp and he was looking extremely good.

I agree, he is a better 13 than 2nd row but playing 2nd row don't mean he has to give up all his ball skills.

The likes of scully and sinfield was the same, they was moved about alot but still played their natural games.