Re: Graham's necessary bollocking : Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:44 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

The big loss for me was Gaskell, he has been our main positional kicker and without him, alot of our kicks where ineffective.

I totally agree. He was growing in confidence too.

Re: Graham's necessary bollocking : Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:13 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

Outstanding effort by the lads today. Outplayed Wigan for fifty minutes of the eighty (they were strong ten minutes before half time and twenty minutes after) and only conceded through inexperience.

I can understand Graham's frustration. We gave Wigan three gilt-edged chances with eight minutes to go. Lomax's kicking the ball to their most elusive player on the last tackle and in their ten metre zone. Then Shenton failing to secure the ball with three minutes left and six tackles to play. Then Foster's poor drop-out which resulted in Wigan starting on our forty.

In many ways it's one of those paradoxical games that you need to experience fully before you can win. Lomax, Foster and Shenton might well be able to get away with such sloppy play in the reserves (or Cas), but you can't afford the same if you want to play with the big boys.

Yes, injuries (and a woeful forward pass) went against us. I wasn't too worried about Wellens because I thought he was having a stinker anyway and looked old. But losing Wheeler was tragic as it allowed the Wigan defence to concentrate solely on Lomax, instead of having a dual axis to worry about. And there was the complete lack of forward power when Graham and Puletua went off. I doubt if we made more than thirty five yards per set of carries in that first twenty. When both players returned we immediately started to make ground.

The above said, pretty much everyone played well - except Gardner (who looked hopeless and was totally outplayed by Foster). Meli wasn't too hot either and gave away too many penalties.

So, basically, everything that doesn't go Saints way in a game doesn't count?! Errors, mistakes and wrong decisions are all part of the game, as are poor refereeing decisions. We scored off one, you scored of one. Get some class mate. It was a great game, played by two commited teams with little to choose between them. I've said it over on our board and I'll repeat it here; you could do worse than take a leaf out of Foster's book. Very gracious in defeat. Pure class, that lad (not to mention great player and prospect).

Hope you all enjoyed your day, if not the result, and I'm sure we'll meet again!

Re: Graham's necessary bollocking : Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:46 am  

Phuzzy wrote:

So, basically, everything that doesn't go Saints way in a game doesn't count?! Errors, mistakes and wrong decisions are all part of the game, as are poor refereeing decisions. We scored off one, you scored of one. Get some class mate.

I'm not sure when the penny will drop. Maybe today. Maybe never. But you cannot equate a try-scoring forward pass (which gives the defending team no chance) to a knock on that leads to six defensive tackles. Besides, it was a knock on. And if it wasn't Wigan would have been penalised (in front of the sticks) for Tomkins taking the ball in an off-side position.

Re: Graham's necessary bollocking : Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:58 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

The kick from lomax did not let Tomkins run 40 - 50 meters, that was the lack of tackling.

Basic kicking rule #3: When leading with seven minutes to go on your deadly rival's turf a kicker must NEVER put the ball (easily) into the hands of the opposition's most elusive broken field runner.

If we are going to apportion blame, lets trace it all the way back to some idiot picking up a rugby ball 150 years ago.

Don't be silly.

We can all pick moments in time to say if and but, but in the end what happened happened. Long could have done something equally as stupid, lomax may choose differently next time.

So it's a complete waste of time analyzing the game? No one is ever at fault so debate is meaningless and the entire decision-making process breaks down. Royce Simmons must have a terrible time picking the team because none of our players make mistakes. As for targeting defensive weaknesses - utterly pointless because it's impossible to blame any player for a phuckup. Tries will just come out of the luminiferous aether.

Re: Graham's necessary bollocking : Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:20 am  

Mugwump wrote:

Basic kicking rule #3: When leading with seven minutes to go on your deadly rival's turf a kicker must NEVER put the ball (easily) into the hands of the opposition's most elusive broken field runner.

Lomax fully realised what he had done the minute he did it. Did you not see his reaction when he missed the tackle on Tomkins? I hope Lomax's confidence does not take too much of a dip as a result of that decision because if he learns from it as he should then he will be a better player for that mistake. It was a very costly mistake but all players make those, inexperienced players in particular. Some of our senior players made equally costly mistakes - Wello dropping the ball with the tryline clear just a couple of yards away; LMS dropping the ball on the tryline; Meli giving away two dumb penalties, one of which led to that forward pass try.

It was a team game: they succeeded or failed as a team. Not all the team were up to scratch yesterday and while numerically it was the forward pass try that won it for Wigan, we had a number of other chances in that match which our experienced players fluffed. No way can we pin this loss on Lomax's mistake alone.

Re: Graham's necessary bollocking : Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:49 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

Lomax fully realised what he had done the minute he did it. Did you not see his reaction when he missed the tackle on Tomkins? I hope Lomax's confidence does not take too much of a dip as a result of that decision because if he learns from it as he should then he will be a better player for that mistake. It was a very costly mistake but all players make those, inexperienced players in particular. Some of our senior players made equally costly mistakes - Wello dropping the ball with the tryline clear just a couple of yards away; LMS dropping the ball on the tryline; Meli giving away two dumb penalties, one of which led to that forward pass try.

It was a team game: they succeeded or failed as a team. Not all the team were up to scratch yesterday and while numerically it was the forward pass try that won it for Wigan, we had a number of other chances in that match which our experienced players fluffed. No way can we pin this loss on Lomax's mistake alone.

The meli pen that leads to a Wigan try for holding down was harsh. If you watch the game back you'll see Sam Tomkins doing what he does every time he's tackled. He locks his arm on the defender and holds the defender down. This time he used his arm and neck to hold meli down meaning he couldn't get off the little runt!

He does this every time yet the refs still can't see he's doing it.

Re: Graham's necessary bollocking : Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:07 am  

As a kid never forget Alex Murphy scoring in the score board corner in extra time a very debatable try and someone shouted out that was never a dry ref to Eric Clay, only for Murphy to reply read the score in the paper in the morning!

Great game, both sides some weak defence at times, all teams go through times of injury and it is often the inexperienced who rise to the occasion! Monday will be a hard hill to climb, but not impossible.

Re: Graham's necessary bollocking : Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:09 am  

St pete wrote:

It could happen and anything is possible but I think we will defo make the top 8.

I think you need to try that one again St Pete .With the young lads Saints have got , try the top 1 - 3

Re: Graham's necessary bollocking : Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:12 am  

Edinburgh Warrior wrote:

I think you need to try that one again St Pete .With the young lads Saints have got , try the top 1 - 3

I think we will make the top 4 even with injuries and capable of finishing top if we get players back.

I was passing comment on someone who said we might not make the top 8 with all the injuries.

Re: Graham's necessary bollocking : Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:55 am  

I am extremeley proud of all 17 players who took the field yesterday it was a truly monsterous effort. Considering the injuries weve got Wellens, Pryce, Eastmond, Perry, Flannery, Clough, Wheeler (just off the top of my head) totals 7 players who where ruled out before the game or where injured during yesterdays match. I am not convinced a number of other players were totally 100% fit yesterday eithier ie Graham. So how on earth anybody on this board can criticise our players after the performance is downright disgraceful. The town of St Helens should be right proud of there players and we can all hold our heads high.