Re: Paul Johnson : Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:11 pm  

vastman wrote:

Correct. Saints like all clubs will let players go who with hindsight they would have kept.

I detest it when fans slag off young players who have left BRANDING them as also rans or not good enough, as if it's personal affront to them that their club could possibly have got it wrong. Johnson may well prove to be one that you should have kept. Worst case scenario is that he makes his name at Wakey, then joins Wigan becomes a star and then comes back to haunt you. It happens to all clubs, you have had a few - Sean Long springs to mind.

Clubs make the best decisions they can with the info available at the time. It could just be that Johnson fits in at Trinity though in this case I do think there is a real player in the making here. However there was no reason why at the end of last year Saints should/could have known that - 6 month is a long time in RL.

Very true, Shaun Lunt would be a good example of a player that has come back after being dropped by Saints (It should be noted that him and his brother were removed from Saints books for what they did off the field rather than on it). Jodie Broughton by Leeds and Ryan Atkins by Bradford are other good examples.

Saints do tend to get it right. Unlike some other clubs Saints have had to pick between Johnson and other good youngsters like Ashurst, Dixon and Maggenis rather than an older player. These three would stand a better chance of coming back and proving us wrong if we cut them and are all infact younger than Johnson.

With between 2-5 new young players coming through into the first team each year. There is a very small window to prove that you are up to the job. Jamie Ellis' knee recontruction is proof of that, another player that could make the grade in Superleague in my opinion.

I am glad that young players that do not earn contacts at Saints are able to stay in the league. It shows what a great job Mike Rush is doing and can only result in more young 13/14 year olds being attracted to play for the clubs junior team. Also if Wakey can play one of our players rather than a Kolpak/Aussie player that can only be good for the game.

Re: Paul Johnson : Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:15 pm  

Anson lad wrote:

I've been to all of the U20's curtain raisers so far this season, I think we have a few good young props that could make the grade such as Thompson, Walker & Forster, they all have great workrate and endevour similar to Johnson. Forster is the one they think very highly of but he's a bit injury prone.

Forster has had a bit of a bad run but is a star of the future. Thompson is a bit older and is in the team to do a bit of work and add a bit of size (the job that Johnson was doing last year), he is probably someone that should be on Wakey/Salford/Widnes' radar for 2012.
I have only seem Walker once, he looked pretty useful.

Re: Paul Johnson : Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:35 pm  

Wakefield fans have been praising Korkidas this year too, doesn't mean he's good enough for Saints.

Good luck to the lad but we won't be losing any sleep, Magennis did nicely for us at the weekend.

Re: Paul Johnson : Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:45 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

Wakefield fans have been praising Korkidas this year too, doesn't mean he's good enough for Saints.

Good luck to the lad but we won't be losing any sleep, Magennis did nicely for us at the weekend.

See that's the sort of snobbish comment I'm on about.

It's nothing to do with Johnsons ability, of course he is good enough for Saints, one assumes that's why you signed him to start with. The case is that Saints like every other teams have a finite amount of money and thus a limited number of spaces for young players to step up in. At some point someone had to make what was probably a fairly tough call and decide who to keep amongst a group of players of similar ability. Saints may well have chosen wisely with Magennis they may not it's to early to say. Johnson may well be at his level now, who knows.

However if Johnson kicks on and ends up a genuine top player then he clearly was good enough for Saints and you have to accept you were wrong and move on. What you don't do is find a 1000 & 1 pedantic reasons as to why he was no good really, that's so petty.

Also why should you lose any sleep I'm sure Saints will carry on, in fact It would be the ultimate compliment to set up if Johnson makes it elsewhere but Saints still keep winning.

Re: Paul Johnson : Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:53 pm  

vastman wrote:

of course he is good enough for Saints, one assumes that's why you signed him to start with

One way of looking at it. Another would be he was good enough for our youth teams and looked a prospect (which is why we signed him) but it was decided he wasn't good enough to keep ahead of other players. Some of the players we kept instead aren't making the squad when we have fewer injuries so I'd argue that the club don't think he is good enough for Saints.

vastman wrote:

The case is that Saints like every other teams have a finite amount of money and thus a limited number of spaces for young players to step up in.

we also have a finite number of places in the 17 and he was behind a lot of players in that pecking order.

vastman wrote:

At some point someone had to make what was probably a fairly tough call and decide who to keep amongst a group of players of similar ability. Saints may well have chosen wisely with Magennis they may not it's to early to say. Johnson may well be at his level now, who knows.

Yep, it's a judgement call but Saints decided Ashurst/Magennis/Dixon were all younger and better bets.

vastman wrote:

However if Johnson kicks on and ends up a genuine top player then he clearly was good enough for Saints and you have to accept you were wrong and move on

Very true. I hope he does kick on and become that player. I think it's fairly unlikely, but who knows?

vastman wrote:

What you don't do is find a 1000 & 1 pedantic reasons as to why he was no good really, that's so petty.

I'm not finding those reasons, I'm saying we had three younger back rowers (plus any in the younger bracket) that we preferred to keep over him.

vastman wrote:

Also why should you lose any sleep I'm sure Saints will carry on, in fact It would be the ultimate compliment to set up if Johnson makes it elsewhere but Saints still keep winning.

I hope he does make it, the more Saints products across the league the better.

Re: Paul Johnson : Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:59 pm  

vastman wrote:

See that's the sort of snobbish comment I'm on about.

It's nothing to do with Johnsons ability, of course he is good enough for Saints, one assumes that's why you signed him to start with. The case is that Saints like every other teams have a finite amount of money and thus a limited number of spaces for young players to step up in. At some point someone had to make what was probably a fairly tough call and decide who to keep amongst a group of players of similar ability. Saints may well have chosen wisely with Magennis they may not it's to early to say. Johnson may well be at his level now, who knows.

However if Johnson kicks on and ends up a genuine top player then he clearly was good enough for Saints and you have to accept you were wrong and move on. What you don't do is find a 1000 & 1 pedantic reasons as to why he was no good really, that's so petty.

Also why should you lose any sleep I'm sure Saints will carry on, in fact It would be the ultimate compliment to set up if Johnson makes it elsewhere but Saints still keep winning.

You should be grateful that we couldn't afford to keep him.
Its great that the kids doing well,but when wakey fans come on here trying to rub It In that wev'e somehow dropped a bolock expect an answer.

Re: Paul Johnson : Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:37 pm  

Don Brennan wrote:

You should be grateful that we couldn't afford to keep him.
Its great that the kids doing well,but when wakey fans come on here trying to rub It In that wev'e somehow dropped a bolock expect an answer.

As the OP on this thread I'm telling you that my intention wasn't to rub it in or suggest you've dropped a bolock!

I'm fairly sure that a number of Sts fans ave watched Johnson progress and then seen him leave, some of them might like to know that he's done good elsewhere and actually be proud that a Sts junior is cutting it in the top division.

Take the chip off your shoulder!

Re: Paul Johnson : Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:53 pm  

The Clan wrote:

As the OP on this thread I'm telling you that my intention wasn't to rub it in or suggest you've dropped a bolock!

I'm fairly sure that a number of Sts fans ave watched Johnson progress and then seen him leave, some of them might like to know that he's done good elsewhere and actually be proud that a Sts junior is cutting it in the top division.

Take the chip off your shoulder!

Nobody has a chip on their shoulder, he was not deemed good enough to be offered a new contract so was let go, Saints believe that other players are better. Few Saints fans think they were incorrect at this point, and some of your compadres appear not to be able to accept that.

You may have just been reporting on his progress, fine, but other Wakey fans aren't.

Re: Paul Johnson : Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:04 pm  

how many games for you did he play? i'm sure i saw him playing for you at wigan on sky

Re: Paul Johnson : Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:08 pm  

The Clan wrote:

As the OP on this thread I'm telling you that my intention wasn't to rub it in or suggest you've dropped a bolock!

I'm fairly sure that a number of Sts fans ave watched Johnson progress and then seen him leave, some of them might like to know that he's done good elsewhere and actually be proud that a Sts junior is cutting it in the top division.

Take the chip off your shoulder!

Ask John Kear if he'll take Ashurst for free I'll drop him off