Re: Roby signed new deal to 2014 : Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:23 pm  

What I don't understand is why NRL coaching methods seem to be such a mysterious black art to us in the UK. Saints have a coach coming straight from the NRL so if their setup is so much better than ours I'd expect him to implement it immediately, as I would for all Aussie coaches that come over. If they can't make us play like they do why are we employing them?

Also we seem to be constantly trying to catch up with what the Aussies are doing to the extent that we just about get the hang of a technique as they move on to the next one. A perfact example being us desperately learning how to slow down the PTB just as they start taking steps to speed it up.

I'm not sure what the answer is but I know we did occasionally used to beat them when we were playing the game our way and not desperately trying to copy their way.

Re: Roby signed new deal to 2014 : Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:31 pm  

Dux wrote:

Take the best 17-30 players out of Super League and it will absolutely nosedive. We don't have the quality to sustain a loss like that. I also don't see any reason why having our best players in the NRL will have any affect on the quality of young players coming through over here, other than to deprive them of regular experience of playing against/with the country's best players.

Now I didn't say they all need to go next week. We need to build it up over a period of years. Getting our best players playing at the top level. Then those players coming back as players and coaches. What we aim to do is learn how to develop top quality players. Because we have a talent pool as big as the kiwis with our catchment areas of lancs, yorks, Cumbria, humberside and london but can't produce the volume of top quality.

Gaz Ellis played enough in sl. roby has had a good few years. The comp doesn't need to nose dive. But in their mid 20's I would like to see robes, Graham, eastmond, both tomkin brothers, Hall, Lunt, briscoe, Harrison move on and others come through. We need a situation where when our players leave we can replace them with as good or better players coming in because we have mastered the art of doing it. Which links well to ski's well made point.
The comp will only nose dive if our top players are few and far between which is the case now.

Re: Roby signed new deal to 2014 : Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:50 pm  

Don Brennan wrote:

Great news,as for going to the NRL to improve,well In my opinion off what I have seen of Ellis he has gone backwards.

He's been voted wests best player 2 years in a row infront of benji, farah and Chris lawerence. He is also regarded as the best backrower in the nrl. So I don't think you have seen too much of him.

Re: Roby signed new deal to 2014 : Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:10 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

I would suggest that Roby would benifit more than the likes of Burgess, Graham and Ellis from a move to an NRL club. His games has some tremendous qualities, but his ability to control a game from dummy half is perhaps not as strong as a hooker of his standing should have.
This may improve dramatically under Royce (an ex hooker), but NRL coaching and susequent playing could move him into a real class of his own.

He is already a class act. Burgess and Ellis haven't dramatically improved IMO and Roby wouldn't either. Same applies to Graham.

Dux wrote:

Take the best 17-30 players out of Super League and it will absolutely nosedive. We don't have the quality to sustain a loss like that. I also don't see any reason why having our best players in the NRL will have any affect on the quality of young players coming through over here, other than to deprive them of regular experience of playing against/with the country's best players.

Roby's game sense would improve in the NRL (having said that, I think it will improve over here now that he's got the main gig at 9), and this might have a moderately beneficial affect on the England side, but ultimately players like Roby aren't the problem. If England had a side full of players of the calibre of Roby, Graham, Ellis and Burgess then we'd be competing on a level with NZ and Aus. The fact is that NRL clubs have come hunting for these players because they are already good enough. The problem is the number of players in our international setup that NRL clubs wouldn't touch with a barge pole. Apart from Penrith, perhaps.

I agree with Ski on this one - send the coaches over, not the players.

Completely agree. We need to look after our own competition, sending our best players to the NRL won't make a jot of difference to the England team. Improving our competition will improve the rest and increase the depth of talent we have.

Re: Roby signed new deal to 2014 : Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:34 pm  

Blobbynator wrote:

sending our best players to the NRL won't make a jot of difference to the England team

Like it hasn't made a jot of difference to the kiwis who despite having a smaller talent pool than the uk have much better players and beat the Aussies in the biggest games?

Re: Roby signed new deal to 2014 : Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:37 pm  

Fantastic news for Saints.

Re: Roby signed new deal to 2014 : Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:40 pm  

Blobbynator wrote:

He is already a class act. Burgess and Ellis haven't dramatically improved IMO and Roby wouldn't either. Same applies to Graham.

Completely agree. We need to look after our own competition, sending our best players to the NRL won't make a jot of difference to the England team. Improving our competition will improve the rest and increase the depth of talent we have.

Totally agree.

I was thrilled to bits when the email came through about Roby.

Well done for making the right decision Robes! Looking forward to seeing you go from strength to strength in the no.9 shirt!

Re: Roby signed new deal to 2014 : Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:55 pm  

Good news. He can go to the NRL and show them up when he's 33 going on 34.

Re: Roby signed new deal to 2014 : Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:10 pm  

sgtwilko wrote:

Like it hasn't made a jot of difference to the kiwis who despite having a smaller talent pool than the uk have much better players and beat the Aussies in the biggest games?

The majority of Kiwi players are playing in a strong competition. We can't send all our players over there and don't have the luxury that NZ do in terms of having a team in the NRL. Sending our best players over there will improve our best players, but what about the other players in the competition? What if our best players are unavailable for selection? The drop in quality is massive. The emphasis shouldn't be on us sending our best players over there, it should be about improving our competition, our coaching and development of players, so ALL our players can compete at the highest level.

Re: Roby signed new deal to 2014 : Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:21 pm  

sgtwilko wrote:

I can totally understand why you saints would be dead chuffed by this. Personally I think he should be going to Oz to test himself in the best comp. what a waste of talent. he could have gone to the next level. Let's hope Graham has more sense.

Roby could do 4/5 years in Oz and come back and give saints another 3/4 years good service at the end.

So when do you expect Sam Tomkins to go to Australia ?