Re: Home grown players : Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:00 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

You mean you wouldn't rather have Hansen, O'Loughlin, Farrell, Marsh and Charnley, rather than Dixon, Magennis, Ashurst, Wheeler and Foster.

And I thought you were one of the few sensible Saints fans.

O'Loughlin is a good player, but the others no.

Your continued pushing of Hansen as anything other than an average workhorse is commendable but ineffective. Just like Hansen really

Re: Home grown players : Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:05 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

O'Loughlin is a good player, but the others no.

I like Farrell. Played well towards the end of the season.

I'm quite excited about the trio of McGennis, Ashurst and Dixon this year.
Ashurt's really kicked on mid season and his physique really matured. He looks like he could be a really athletic running 2nd row. DIxon's a canny lad and McGennis showed alot of spark in the few appearences he's been given.

The more I consider them, the more I wonder how prudent the resigning of Flanders was.

Re: Home grown players : Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:13 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

I like Farrell. Played well towards the end of the season.

I agree, but I'm not sure I'd take him at the moment over the three we have.

I'm quite excited about the trio of McGennis, Ashurst and Dixon this year.
Ashurt's really kicked on mid season and his physique really matured. He looks like he could be a really athletic running 2nd row. DIxon's a canny lad and McGennis showed alot of spark in the few appearences he's been given.

The more I consider them, the more I wonder how prudent the resigning of Flanders was.

[/quote]

A 12 month deal was probably ok as long as he's droppable.

Re: Home grown players : Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:57 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

You mean you wouldn't rather have Hansen, O'Loughlin, Farrell, Marsh and Charnley, rather than Dixon, Magennis, Ashurst, Wheeler and Foster.

And I thought you were one of the few sensible Saints fans.

Thanks Rogues I am in the office and laughed quiet loudly when I read Hansen. Now all my co-workers think I am crazy, thanks.

Out the lot I would take Farrell as the lads put in a lot of work for a young lad and Charnley looked pretty good at HKR (I am not sure how hard that is). I have only heard of Marsh but you are welcome to keep the rest.

The bottom line is that both clubs seem to be getting things right and both will enjoy future success because of that.

Re: Home grown players : Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:58 pm  

Odemwingie wrote:

Well done to Saints for throwing the young players in but the only reason it is so many is because of the injuries.

I think you'll find that the young player figure was a different figure. This is for home grown, which includes anyone who has been trained in the club's academy side for longer than three years prior to being 21. That will therefore include the likes of Cunningham, Wellens, Roby and Graham long with Foster, Moore, Eastmond, Wheeler, Lomax, Dixon, Magennis, Ashurst, etc, who are 21 and younger.

While injuries will no doubt have influenced the 2010 figures and to some degree the 2009 figure too (since we had a lot of injuries during the second half of that season), we would have played some of our young home grown players anyway given that we have only recruited one player for each of those seasons but lost a total of seven first team players in the same period. That was why Potter was recruited: to integrate our young locals.

Re: Home grown players : Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:06 pm  

The club have done well to produce some great young players over the last 5 years. They have not only produced them but the coaching has helped them make the final step into the first team. This is the toughest hurdle of all given some of the quality players that did not make the grade before then.

Remembering some of the second rate overseas players we signing 10 years ago, it is hard not to be proud of how far the club has come. In fact it has been a long time since we have signed an overseas player that was not top draw (Maurie and Dom perhaps). Having top juniors ensures that the quality of your overseas players is also high as you get to concentrate on quality rather than quantity.

Sadly (as my thread about this subject on redvee shows) not all our fans appreciate our youth systems and all they seem to want is big name signings and success now. It is a little sad that the great work by the club is lost on some people.

Re: Home grown players : Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:26 pm  

It's a balancing act though. You produce kids through your youth system primarily to cover squad places that are considered non critical cheaply, which enables you to spend your money on top quality players.

Saints have the kids bit right, but don't have the right quality of 'star' player. We waste, and they are wasted, spots on Meli, Gidley, Flannery and Soliola (Although there is still time for him to prove his worth).

Had we had Jamie Lyon and someone of the quality of Darren Britt on those quota spots we'd have won 3 of the 4 Grand Finals IMO. We used to have the best of both worlds with domestic stars like Scully, Long, KC and Gilly and also overseas stars in the same team. Now bar Leon we don't have either other than in the front row which can easily be worked around as Wigan proved.

Instead of world class in the key positions and good elsewhere, we're now just good all round.

Re: Home grown players : Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:00 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

It's a balancing act though. You produce kids through your youth system primarily to cover squad places that are considered non critical cheaply, which enables you to spend your money on top quality players.

Saints have the kids bit right, but don't have the right quality of 'star' player. We waste, and they are wasted, spots on Meli, Gidley, Flannery and Soliola (Although there is still time for him to prove his worth).

Had we had Jamie Lyon and someone of the quality of Darren Britt on those quota spots we'd have won 3 of the 4 Grand Finals IMO. We used to have the best of both worlds with domestic stars like Scully, Long, KC and Gilly and also overseas stars in the same team. Now bar Leon we don't have either other than in the front row which can easily be worked around as Wigan proved.

Instead of world class in the key positions and good elsewhere, we're now just good all round.

We have been spoiled over the last few years, the team of 2006 was probably a once in a lifetime team for most of us, and having suffered the dross of the 70s and 80s, I am happy to watch a team that is simply good all round. Saints youth strategy is just part of the clubs vision to ensure a sustainable future, and that should be just as important to us as short term success, that so often leads to long term suffering.

Re: Home grown players : Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:10 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

Instead of world class in the key positions and good elsewhere, we're now just good all round.

But doesn't that have to happen every so often so you can build on that next time around?

For example, if next year you give your kids another year, then get rid of Flannery, Meli, Gardner etc in one go that will free up a massive chunk of salary cap to spend on a couple of real quality players.

Re: Home grown players : Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:32 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

You mean you wouldn't rather have Hansen, O'Loughlin, Farrell, Marsh and Charnley, rather than Dixon, Magennis, Ashurst, Wheeler and Foster.

And I thought you were one of the few sensible Saints fans.

I'd take O'Loughlin and Charnley , the rest you could keep. Marsh doesnt look anything special from the limited action i've seen (he looks too light),Hansen is a 10 a penny workhorse and Farrell I suspect will turn out to be the same.