: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:06 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

Recently?

Yes, especially defensively. Are you trying to say he has always done this? Maybe he has, but i've never noticed it. He's always been more known for doing the fancy stuff, but this season, for me anyway, he has really putting in the work.

: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:14 pm  

saint billy wrote:

Yes, especially defensively. Are you trying to say he has always done this? Maybe he has, but i've never noticed it. He's always been more known for doing the fancy stuff, but this season, for me anyway, he has really putting in the work.

I'm sure someone will have access to last seasons tackling statistics and end this debate one way or the other.

: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:17 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

I'm sure someone will have access to last seasons tackling statistics and end this debate one way or the other.

They probably do. Like i said, he is more known for doing the fancy stuff, but to me anyway, his work rate has been much more noticeable this season.

: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:47 pm  

saint billy wrote:

Yes, especially defensively. Are you trying to say he has always done this? Maybe he has, but i've never noticed it. He's always been more known for doing the fancy stuff, but this season, for me anyway, he has really putting in the work.

For the past two, maybe three, seasons Wilkin has consistently been one of the hardest workers at the club. You'll struggle to find players who are more involved than he is over the 80 minutes. When he's not tackling, he's charging down a kick, or taking the ball up, or supporting the ball-carrier, or kicking etc. He's also one of the toughest defenders at the club. You never see him go missing when the opposition forwards have a head of steam up. He's bloody fearless - despite not being the biggest second-row in the world.

The fact that all this has passed you by doesn't suggest we should put much faith in your powers of observation or analytical skills henceforth.

: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:54 pm  

Mugwump wrote: For the past two, maybe three, seasons Wilkin has consistently been one of the hardest workers at the club. You'll struggle to find players who are more involved than he is over the 80 minutes. When he's not tackling, he's charging down a kick, or taking the ball up, or supporting the ball-carrier, or kicking etc. He's also one of the toughest defenders at the club. You never see him go missing when the opposition forwards have a head of steam up. He's bloody fearless - despite not being the biggest second-row in the world. The fact that all this has passed you by doesn't suggest we should put much faith in your powers of observation or analytical skills henceforth. ccording to this http://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009 Wilkin this season already has made nearly half the amount of tackles that he did last season despite only playing a quarter(ish) as many games. Id say he's upped his tackling so Saint Billy might be onto something when saying he's been more noticable.

Mugwump wrote: For the past two, maybe three, seasons Wilkin has consistently been one of the hardest workers at the club. You'll struggle to find players who are more involved than he is over the 80 minutes. When he's not tackling, he's charging down a kick, or taking the ball up, or supporting the ball-carrier, or kicking etc. He's also one of the toughest defenders at the club. You never see him go missing when the opposition forwards have a head of steam up. He's bloody fearless - despite not being the biggest second-row in the world. The fact that all this has passed you by doesn't suggest we should put much faith in your powers of observation or analytical skills henceforth. ccording to this http://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009 Wilkin this season already has made nearly half the amount of tackles that he did last season despite only playing a quarter(ish) as many games. Id say he's upped his tackling so Saint Billy might be onto something when saying he's been more noticable.

: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:56 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

For the past two, maybe three, seasons Wilkin has consistently been one of the hardest workers at the club. You'll struggle to find players who are more involved than he is over the 80 minutes. When he's not tackling, he's charging down a kick, or taking the ball up, or supporting the ball-carrier, or kicking etc. He's also one of the toughest defenders at the club. You never see him go missing when the opposition forwards have a head of steam up. He's bloody fearless - despite not being the biggest second-row in the world.

The fact that all this has passed you by doesn't suggest we should put much faith in your powers of observation or analytical skills henceforth.

I didn't say he didn't work hard before, but its much more obvious this season, especially defensively. It's not passed me by at all, i just feel it is much more obvious this season than the past few seasons. A lot of fans consider Wilkin to be just a ball player, but he is proving them wrong, and he is now being noticed for putting in the graft as well as the the fancy stuff.

: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:59 pm  

saintc wrote: ccording to this http://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009 Wilkin this season already has made nearly half the amount of tackles that he did last season despite only playing a quarter(ish) as many games. Id say he's upped his tackling so Saint Billy might be onto something when saying he's been more noticable. I was just going to have a look at the stats. There it is then, Wilkin is definatly working harder this season (than last season anyway), especially in defence. My observation and analytical skills mustn't be that bad at all then.

saintc wrote: ccording to this http://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009 Wilkin this season already has made nearly half the amount of tackles that he did last season despite only playing a quarter(ish) as many games. Id say he's upped his tackling so Saint Billy might be onto something when saying he's been more noticable. I was just going to have a look at the stats. There it is then, Wilkin is definatly working harder this season (than last season anyway), especially in defence. My observation and analytical skills mustn't be that bad at all then.

: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:41 pm  

saint billy wrote:

I didn't say he didn't work hard before, but its much more obvious this season, especially defensively. It's not passed me by at all, i just feel it is much more obvious this season than the past few seasons. A lot of fans consider Wilkin to be just a ball player, but he is proving them wrong, and he is now being noticed for putting in the graft as well as the the fancy stuff.

You're right that many fans think of him as a "ball player". I don't know where or how this label got started, but it's wrong and has been a millstone around his neck. Wilkin is a modern RL second row/loose forward. He is multi-skilled with no significant weaknesses. But being able to pass without weakness does not make you a ball player - and being a ball player doesn't necessarily mean you can pass without weakness. At the heart of the definition lies the question of natural ability. A ball player is someone with innate talent for passinig - long, short, quick, cut-out etc. You can be a good passer of the ball - but this may well be because you've spent eight hours a day practicing since the age of six. A natural ball player is someone who can demonstrate a range of passing seemingly without effort or practice and has the ability to see and hit (usually through heavy traffic) players other passers miss entirely.

Harry Pinner was a ball playing loose forward who could split defences apart with a variety of passes, but he - unlike Wilkin - had significant weaknesses in his passing game (he left himself wide open to interception). Andy Gregory was a ball player who similarly terrorised defences - but he had to turn his back to deliver a right-handed cut-out pass.

Wally Lewis was one of those rare players who was a ball player without any significant weaknesses to his passing game. Which is why he was so good.

: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:59 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

You're right that many fans think of him as a "ball player". I don't know where or how this label got started, but it's wrong and has been a millstone around his neck. Wilkin is a modern RL second row/loose forward. He is multi-skilled with no significant weaknesses. But being able to pass without weakness does not make you a ball player - and being a ball player doesn't necessarily mean you can pass without weakness. At the heart of the definition lies the question of natural ability. A ball player is someone with innate talent for passinig - long, short, quick, cut-out etc. You can be a good passer of the ball - but this may well be because you've spent eight hours a day practicing since the age of six. A natural ball player is someone who can demonstrate a range of passing seemingly without effort or practice and has the ability to see and hit (usually through heavy traffic) players other passers miss entirely.

Harry Pinner was a ball playing loose forward who could split defences apart with a variety of passes, but he - unlike Wilkin - had significant weaknesses in his passing game (he left himself wide open to interception). Andy Gregory was a ball player who similarly terrorised defences - but he had to turn his back to deliver a right-handed cut-out pass.

Wally Lewis was one of those rare players who was a ball player without any significant weaknesses to his passing game. Which is why he was so good.

Like i said, he is proving them wrong this season by working much harder in defence, hes showing that hes not only this ball player that people think, and hes playing much better because of it. Wilkin can be a ball player, he can quite easily slot into half back if it is needed. He's got that ability to be a ball player, but this season it is far more noticeable that he is working much harder and he is looking a better player because of it. Not only can he use the ball, he can also put in the hard graft that is required of a back row forward.

: Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:07 pm  

This season Wilkin is averaging just shy of 41 tackles per game, which in anyones book is outstanding.
In 2006 he averaged 22.8 tackles per game, in 2007 27.8 per game and in 2008 26.5 per game. These are very respectable figures for a second row forward.
I just hope all this extra defensive effort does not detract from his key role in the team which is producing the 'fancy Dan' stuff.