Re: Rumours thread. : Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:12 am  

Shaft wrote:

I would be happy with that approach. I just don't see who else we can sign that would benefit the squad

Pretty much anyone. We're weaker, yet again, than last season. If Perry continues to be a complete daisy then our pack is going to look very weak without Jammer and his amazing durability.

Re: Rumours thread. : Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:29 am  

Saddened! wrote:

I'm not sure it would you know. He's in the same boat as Moore in my opinion. The club clearly have issues with him, different issues than Scott granted, but issues none the less.

Go on then, what's your basis for this statement?

Re: Rumours thread. : Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:22 pm  

SaintsFan wrote: It is official. We are not recruiting anymore players for 2012. Instead, McManus wants to use the remaining cap money plus the extra bit awarded thanks to the RFL being in bed with Wigan to our 'starlets', including Jonny Lomax. At least he's come out and said we ain't signing anyone and how we using the cap space we have left to keep our young players. I still think the youth and English statements are still excuses to stop fans asking why ain't we signing top quality players anymore. Weve signed hohaia, laffranchi and flanaghan and lost pryce, eastmond, Graham, Moore, ashurst and armstrong. That's a pretty high turnover of players and pryce, Graham and eastomond will have been high payed players so obviously the numbers don't add up.

SaintsFan wrote: It is official. We are not recruiting anymore players for 2012. Instead, McManus wants to use the remaining cap money plus the extra bit awarded thanks to the RFL being in bed with Wigan to our 'starlets', including Jonny Lomax. At least he's come out and said we ain't signing anyone and how we using the cap space we have left to keep our young players. I still think the youth and English statements are still excuses to stop fans asking why ain't we signing top quality players anymore. Weve signed hohaia, laffranchi and flanaghan and lost pryce, eastmond, Graham, Moore, ashurst and armstrong. That's a pretty high turnover of players and pryce, Graham and eastomond will have been high payed players so obviously the numbers don't add up.

Re: Rumours thread. : Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:31 pm  

St pete wrote:

Weve signed hohaia, laffranchi and flanaghan and lost pryce, eastmond, Graham, Moore, ashurst and armstrong. That's a pretty high turnover of players and pryce, Graham and eastomond will have been high payed players so obviously the numbers don't add up.

Well, they do, as Saints have already stated that they are not spending to the cap for 2012. The loss of Pryce, Jammer and Eastmond will have helped to pay for the three newbies plus possible increased deals for Makinson/Gaskell, etc with the remainder sitting in the bank, so to speak. Since we had at least four players in the England/Knights squad, we'll be allowed to spend to some of the £100,000 extra allocation so I'd say we have plenty of leeway should somebody good become available mid season.

However, I'd rather see how our young guys go.

Re: Rumours thread. : Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:59 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Well, they do, as Saints have already stated that they are not spending to the cap for 2012.

Not spending the extra cap that is now available. When the issued the recent accounts and the info on the re-financing I'm pretty certain they stated that they were operating at full cap.

Re: Rumours thread. : Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:13 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

Pretty much anyone. We're weaker, yet again, than last season. If Perry continues to be a complete daisy then our pack is going to look very weak without Jammer and his amazing durability.

Pretty much anyone? Considering you've moaned about Hohaia like crazy, then no doubt 'pretty much anyone' would get hammered by you also.

I'd have been happier with another prop, but our squad is good when comparing to other SL sides. Wigan are weaker, Warrington are weaker, Leeds and Huddersfield haven't dramatically improved. The only obvious improvers are Catalans. Hull may improve with their new coach, but do you see them challenging? We may not have the strongest side on paper, but the strongest side doesn't always win the trophies, you only have to look at Warrington for proof of that. We'll definitely be in the mix again for both trophies.

Graham is a massive loss to us and at this stage I don't know how we'll cope in his absence. He was a talisman, a leader and a great player who as you point out was durable. Laffranchi has a big job on his hands as does Puletua, Clough, LMS and more importantly Josh Perry. We have to get 25+ games out of him next year IMO, he could play a big part and help the loss of Graham. If he comes back like Soliola did this season we have no worries, but if he's in and out our pack could struggle. Either way, the team will have to step up and find a way to cope with Graham's loss.

The losses of Pryce, Eastmond, Moore, Ashurst and Armstrong aren't significant for me. Pryce and Eastmond played less than 10 games each and bar the odd glimpse of quality, didn't really produce for us in 2011. The signing of Hohaia easily offsets that especially if he plays the majority of games. He brings experience, versatility, pace and real quality to the team. He'll probably play at 6, but wherever he plays he'll add a new dimension to our side and his signing excites me most. We'll see how he does, but I think he'll show his worth for us especially if he strings a run of games together. Scott Moore was a liability, he cost us in so many of the big games - he was the one who let Liam Farrell run through the gap on Good Friday, he was the one who gave away some big penalties in the CC Semi and he was the one who changed the momentum of the game by giving a stupid penalty in the Grand Final. He had his plus points, but for me it was the right decision. In Flanagan, we have a young player who has played in SL and the NRL and has impressed. I've seen enough of him (reserve, SL and NRL) to know we have a good player and in a salary cap sport, his versatility is vital. Armstrong And Ashurst aren't really much of a loss as they didn't feature alot, they will be replaced by eager young players looking to make the grade similar to the likes of Gaskell, Makinson, Foster and Lomax who hadn't featured much until this season. I'm sure we'll see another break out star or two next year who will surprise many of us.

The likes of Lomax, Gaskell, Foster and Makinson have really stepped up and will continue to develop and offer competition to the 1st team / become 1st team players and other young players will do the same. The new stadium is a big boost to us and that will lift the whole of St Helens RLFC. Whether we win a trophy or not I'm not sure but we'll be in the mix as the team spirit is excellent and there is a feel good factor at Saints right now.

Re: Rumours thread. : Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:16 pm  

Blobbynator wrote:

Pretty much anyone? Considering you've moaned about Hohaia like crazy, then no doubt 'pretty much anyone' would get hammered by you also.

I'd have been happier with another prop, but our squad is good when comparing to other SL sides. Wigan are weaker, Warrington are weaker, Leeds and Huddersfield haven't dramatically improved. The only obvious improvers are Catalans. Hull may improve with their new coach, but do you see them challenging? We may not have the strongest side on paper, but the strongest side doesn't always win the trophies, you only have to look at Warrington for proof of that. We'll definitely be in the mix again for both trophies.

Graham is a massive loss to us and at this stage I don't know how we'll cope in his absence. He was a talisman, a leader and a great player who as you point out was durable. Laffranchi has a big job on his hands as does Puletua, Clough, LMS and more importantly Josh Perry. We have to get 25+ games out of him next year IMO, he could play a big part and help the loss of Graham. If he comes back like Soliola did this season we have no worries, but if he's in and out our pack could struggle. Either way, the team will have to step up and find a way to cope with Graham's loss.

The losses of Pryce, Eastmond, Moore, Ashurst and Armstrong aren't significant for me. Pryce and Eastmond played less than 10 games each and bar the odd glimpse of quality, didn't really produce for us in 2011. The signing of Hohaia easily offsets that especially if he plays the majority of games. He brings experience, versatility, pace and real quality to the team. He'll probably play at 6, but wherever he plays he'll add a new dimension to our side and his signing excites me most. We'll see how he does, but I think he'll show his worth for us especially if he strings a run of games together. Scott Moore was a liability, he cost us in so many of the big games - he was the one who let Liam Farrell run through the gap on Good Friday, he was the one who gave away some big penalties in the CC Semi and he was the one who changed the momentum of the game by giving a stupid penalty in the Grand Final. He had his plus points, but for me it was the right decision. In Flanagan, we have a young player who has played in SL and the NRL and has impressed. I've seen enough of him (reserve, SL and NRL) to know we have a good player and in a salary cap sport, his versatility is vital. Armstrong And Ashurst aren't really much of a loss as they didn't feature alot, they will be replaced by eager young players looking to make the grade similar to the likes of Gaskell, Makinson, Foster and Lomax who hadn't featured much until this season. I'm sure we'll see another break out star or two next year who will surprise many of us.

The likes of Lomax, Gaskell, Foster and Makinson have really stepped up and will continue to develop and offer competition to the 1st team / become 1st team players and other young players will do the same. The new stadium is a big boost to us and that will lift the whole of St Helens RLFC. Whether we win a trophy or not I'm not sure but we'll be in the mix as the team spirit is excellent and there is a feel good factor at Saints right now.

It's the Anti-Saddened!

Re: Rumours thread. : Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:28 pm  

Cragganmore Kid wrote:

It's the Anti-Saddened!

Just bringing some balance to the debate.

Saddened makes some good points, but he's far more doom and gloom that he needs to be.

Re: Rumours thread. : Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:52 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Well, they do, as Saints have already stated that they are not spending to the cap for 2012. The loss of Pryce, Jammer and Eastmond will have helped to pay for the three newbies plus possible increased deals for Makinson/Gaskell, etc with the remainder sitting in the bank, so to speak. Since we had at least four players in the England/Knights squad, we'll be allowed to spend to some of the £100,000 extra allocation so I'd say we have plenty of leeway should somebody good become available mid season.

However, I'd rather see how our young guys go.

IMO we spending way below the cap. I also know how much Gaskell is on and he's not been given a huge increase. I know Jamie foster has agreed a new deal but weve lost three massive earners and I dont beleive for one min that the three we've brought in are on the same as the three gone out.

I'd say we've enough cap space for three good quality players but to be fair the ain't much about.


I find it very strange that saints give the likes of meli, Gardner, falannery new deals when their salary could have been used to give the kids better deals and the likes of Graham, pryce, moore, eastmond, Armstrong and ashurst salary could have been used to recruit better quality players.

McManus was the one who said we would have a side good enough to grace the new stadium and IMO it's not.

Re: Rumours thread. : Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:01 pm  

I can see lomax and gaskell both signing new deals double they contracts they are on now