Re: Leeds game : Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:28 pm  

You do all realise that Mugwump and St Pete are the same person arguing with himself don't you?

Re: Leeds game : Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:50 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

You do all realise that Mugwump and St Pete are the same person arguing with himself don't you?

A small part of that would actually be genius although I'm not sure I can convince myself by their extremes.

Re: Leeds game : Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:48 pm  

Roy Haggerty wrote:

Misanthropically-inspired mass-murder is not a great business model for a website which depends on attracting visits from the general population.

On the contrary - if the Internet currently teaches us anything it is that the intersection between a sharp blade and a row of necks is a captive audience.

Re: Leeds game : Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:46 pm  

One thing I will say is I feel far too many people are getting carried away with other sides' expansive tactics and looking on enviously. In many ways I think it's commendable that coaches are attempting to inject more mobility and it certainly adds entertainment to the competition. Sure, it would be great to see a couple more young backs breaking into the Saints side and if we possessed some of the talent other teams are blessed with I'd be looking for us to give the ball a little more air, too.

But I think people are losing sight of the objective here. As the current SL champions our primary goal is victory in a ONE OFF game at Old Trafford.

Spraying the ball to every corner of the pitch in the league is a completely different proposition to doing the same in a high-pressure, winner-takes-all Grand Final.

If you want a good analogy - consider the World Cup. How many times have we seen teams overflowing with exciting talent facing off against each other in that competition with the end-result being a dour and disappointing stalemate with players who would think nothing of attacking from any and all avenues in a LEAGUE match choosing instead to dial down the adventurism for fear of making a mistake which, unlike in a league game, could well be impossible to recover from?

At Old Trafford you don't get twenty odd bites at the cherry. It's an eighty-minute winner-takes-all fixture which makes even the most adventuresome player reticent to take risks. If we face Leeds or Wigan in the Grand Final and they whizz the ball around at a hundred miles an hour and win - good luck to them.

I'm not saying it's impossible to win giving the ball more air. But Saints fans more than possibly anyone should know the consequences of having one of those days when the ball just won't stick. And when your opponent is repeatedly grinding out his sets and kicking you back to your twenty the pressure soon begins to twist around your neck like a tourniquet.

If you're asking me whether I'd PREFER to win scoring sixty yard tries through six pairs of hands - sure. Who wouldn't? But given a choice between ploughing down the middle, limiting the amount of time the ball is in the air and generally pursuing a relatively conservative attacking strategy or going wide at every available opportunity I'll choose the former every time.

Re: Leeds game : Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:06 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

One thing I will say is I feel far too many people are getting carried away with other sides' expansive tactics and looking on enviously. In many ways I think it's commendable that coaches are attempting to inject more mobility and it certainly adds entertainment to the competition. Sure, it would be great to see a couple more young backs breaking into the Saints side and if we possessed some of the talent other teams are blessed with I'd be looking for us to give the ball a little more air, too.

But I think people are losing sight of the objective here. As the current SL champions our primary goal is victory in a ONE OFF game at Old Trafford.

Spraying the ball to every corner of the pitch in the league is a completely different proposition to doing the same in a high-pressure, winner-takes-all Grand Final.

If you want a good analogy - consider the World Cup. How many times have we seen teams overflowing with exciting talent facing off against each other in that competition with the end-result being a dour and disappointing stalemate with players who would think nothing of attacking from any and all avenues in a LEAGUE match choosing instead to dial down the adventurism for fear of making a mistake which, unlike in a league game, could well be impossible to recover from?

At Old Trafford you don't get twenty odd bites at the cherry. It's an eighty-minute winner-takes-all fixture which makes even the most adventuresome player reticent to take risks. If we face Leeds or Wigan in the Grand Final and they whizz the ball around at a hundred miles an hour and win - good luck to them.

I'm not saying it's impossible to win giving the ball more air. But Saints fans more than possibly anyone should know the consequences of having one of those days when the ball just won't stick. And when your opponent is repeatedly grinding out his sets and kicking you back to your twenty the pressure soon begins to twist around your neck like a tourniquet.

If you're asking me whether I'd PREFER to win scoring sixty yard tries through six pairs of hands - sure. Who wouldn't? But given a choice between ploughing down the middle, limiting the amount of time the ball is in the air and generally pursuing a relatively conservative attacking strategy or going wide at every available opportunity I'll choose the former every time.

You're forgetting though that the Leeds squad is pretty similar to the one that ground out boring-risk free rugby in the CC semi and Final vs Wire and Cas to lift the cup. We maybe throwing it around a bit this year but this group still knows how to and when to play the 'just get the win' rugby. Wouldn't surprise me if we make the playoffs and were able to grind out two very unexciting wins.

As for Saints.....can they do it? What examples do we have? The playoffs? Both Cas and Catalans had hit a brick wall by the time they face Saints and Wigan had 12 men. You stumbled towards the LLS hoping that Cas would fall to Catalans.......not trying to wind up or troll but just seriously pointing out that their's no real evidence of Saints being able to produce under TRUE pressure.

Re: Leeds game : Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:45 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

As for Saints.....can they do it? What examples do we have? The playoffs? Both Cas and Catalans had hit a brick wall by the time they face Saints and Wigan had 12 men. You stumbled towards the LLS hoping that Cas would fall to Catalans.......not trying to wind up or troll but just seriously pointing out that their's no real evidence of Saints being able to produce under TRUE pressure.

Whatever handicaps other teams faced - they can hardly be any worse than entering the playoffs without the league's best scrum half and the likes of Jordan Turner and Lance Hohaia assuming the roles of playmaker. And if Wigan were down a man - we were down to zero halves. If you don't consider such "winning under TRUE pressure" then I await with interest your comments should Leeds win in similar circumstances.

Re: Leeds game : Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:13 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

Whatever handicaps other teams faced - they can hardly be any worse than entering the playoffs without the league's best scrum half and the likes of Jordan Turner and Lance Hohaia assuming the roles of playmaker. And if Wigan were down a man - we were down to zero halves. If you don't consider such "winning under TRUE pressure" then I await with interest your comments should Leeds win in similar circumstances.

What that tells us is that Saints are guilty of not having a good young backup should an injury happen. You may not have had 'proper halves' but you still had an extra man on the field for SEVENTY EIGHT minutes, if you really think that you were under real pressure then you're deluded. All teams have injuries at that point, I doubt McIlorum was sat in the stands because of tactical reasons now was he?

Re: Leeds game : Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:43 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

What that tells us is that Saints are guilty of not having a good young backup should an injury happen. You may not have had 'proper halves' but you still had an extra man on the field for SEVENTY EIGHT minutes, if you really think that you were under real pressure then you're deluded. All teams have injuries at that point, I doubt McIlorum was sat in the stands because of tactical reasons now was he?

So you are trolling.

Re: Leeds game : Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:52 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

So you are trolling.

No Peter he was just giving an opinion that you found too difficult to respond to with any reasonable retort

Re: Leeds game : Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:23 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

No Peter he was just giving an opinion that you found too difficult to respond to with any reasonable retort

Spot on. Any opinion that isn't "Saints have the best set of forwards ever assembled in RL history" is way beyond his capabilities of debate. I take back my previous claim of him NOT being an idoit....he quite clearly is.