Re: Royce Simmons OUT : Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:42 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

But he'll need more than just knocking a few grubber kicks in occasionally, he needs a long kicking game and that's not somethign I've ever remember seeing.

Did you watch him in the u20s? I didn't, so I don't know whether he had a long kicking game there. Since I've only watched him at first grade level, I've only seen him play at centre, except in Cardiff. And he kicked a couple of grubbers during that match, but as I said, a little too hard.

I'm not sure on that, he does seem to have more of a sniff of the tryline, but the craft of putting people in?

I think so, yes. He also has guile. I liked the way he got us a penalty in Cardiff. He has a good rugby brain overall.

He has taken on the line though, him taking on the line led to Meli's try on Friday. What he isn't doing is doing it when there is little or nothing on and trying to make a half break.

That was the only time he took on the line. That is very, very poor from a fullback. I agree with your second statement. However, that is precisely what we need him to do a lot of, especially with a rookie first grader in partnership.

At this moment in time Wheeler and Gaskell would be as much of a failure as a half back combination as the current one is turning out to be, if not worse because at least Eastmond has experience of playing at 7 more than a handful of times.

I don't think it would be worse. It may well be better as Wheeler would work as hard as Gaskell, which would be harder than Eastmond is working at present. They will be an incredibly inexperienced partnership but I don't see how that is different from one incredibly inexperienced and one incredibly unengaged in partnership at present.

We look worse than we did last season in defence, we were more intense last year.

Elsewhere I've put the averages we shipped in last season and this, for the first five weeks. In 2010 it was 18.8, in 2011 it is 21.2. However, we began 2010 by shipping 32 points whereas in 2011 our highest shipment is 27. We only allowed Salford to score 6 last season; we were lazy in the last quarter this time out which has bumped up our average. So actually, there isn't a whole lot of difference in our defence to this time last season.

I think you're blowing the Graham thinks he's a half back argument out of proportion there, that's a cheap easy shot from poor journalists and opposition fans.

No it isn't. I kept noticing Jammer on Friday night. He was doing his hospital pass thing again and it is both annoying and unnecessary. He needs to focus on driving us forward and then, if the right opportunity arises, pass. When he is very selective and controlled with his passing he is fantastic to have on the park.

Re: Royce Simmons OUT : Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:47 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote: Then he isn't doing his job properly as coach if that is happening, the preparation isn't good enough. Did you read the RL press today? In it, Terry Matterson stated that last season Cas had had a problem with drinking at the club. That has now been sorted out. Whose responsibility is it to sort out those kinds of cultures? Coach, paymaster or both? Besides,I think you'll find he's taken responsibility. It also looks as if he's attempting to deflect criticsm elsewhere, if he's doing that this early is that a good sign? I would think that also except that he has already publically taken responsibility for Friday night's showing. What he appears to be reflecting on is what is different between being away and being at home, as the players are more professional away from home. Any good teacher/coach will reflect upon these things in order to make changes in the future, to their own approach as well as to those they are responsible for.

Billinge_Lump wrote: Then he isn't doing his job properly as coach if that is happening, the preparation isn't good enough. Did you read the RL press today? In it, Terry Matterson stated that last season Cas had had a problem with drinking at the club. That has now been sorted out. Whose responsibility is it to sort out those kinds of cultures? Coach, paymaster or both? Besides,I think you'll find he's taken responsibility. It also looks as if he's attempting to deflect criticsm elsewhere, if he's doing that this early is that a good sign? I would think that also except that he has already publically taken responsibility for Friday night's showing. What he appears to be reflecting on is what is different between being away and being at home, as the players are more professional away from home. Any good teacher/coach will reflect upon these things in order to make changes in the future, to their own approach as well as to those they are responsible for.

Re: Royce Simmons OUT : Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:00 pm  

Fans have been claiming our attack has been poor since Anderson. We're now under Simmons and fans are saying the same thing. That's three coaches. During that time our back line has hardly changed (as far as experienced pros are concerned). Which proves (not that it should need to be proved to anyone with more than a single brain cell) that any perceived attacking weakness in the backs (as far as TACTICS were concerned) could not be laid at Potter's feet.

In other words - the boo boys were wrong. And they should feel ashamed of themselves.

Re: Royce Simmons OUT : Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:06 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Did you watch him in the u20s? I didn't, so I don't know whether he had a long kicking game there. Since I've only watched him at first grade level, I've only seen him play at centre, except in Cardiff. And he kicked a couple of grubbers during that match, but as I said, a little too hard.

I didn't watch him that much, however the 7 was usually Eastmond or Smith during his time coming through the ranks rather than him, he was stand off, that suggests to me that he isn't a 7. He also played 7 against Wakey a few years ago and at half back against Hudds in his first appearance, I can't remember him making kicks in either game.

I think so, yes. He also has guile. I liked the way he got us a penalty in Cardiff. He has a good rugby brain overall.

He has, but that doesn't mean that he'll be any good at 7. He's also not reliable enough injury wise to build enough experience at this moment in time.

That was the only time he took on the line. That is very, very poor from a fullback. I agree with your second statement. However, that is precisely what we need him to do a lot of, especially with a rookie first grader in partnership.

Halfback? I don't think he's putting a great deal of effort in, but his lack of running could be down to a number of factors, fear of injury, coaching instructions, etc. No one on this board knows why he isn't doing it, they are just presumptions, and due to him signing for RU those presumptions are on the negative side.

I don't think it would be worse. It may well be better as Wheeler would work as hard as Gaskell, which would be harder than Eastmond is working at present. They will be an incredibly inexperienced partnership but I don't see how that is different from one incredibly inexperienced and one incredibly unengaged in partnership at present.

Eastmond has the technical ability to kick, Wheeler has not shown that. All the kicking would have to be done by Gaskell and he has shown that he is inconsistent with his kicking (due to inexperience in all probabilty), but to put the responsibility on his shoulders for being the main kicker could well destroy any confidence he has.

Elsewhere I've put the averages we shipped in last season and this, for the first five weeks. In 2010 it was 18.8, in 2011 it is 21.2. However, we began 2010 by shipping 32 points whereas in 2011 our highest shipment is 27. We only allowed Salford to score 6 last season; we were lazy in the last quarter this time out which has bumped up our average. So actually, there isn't a whole lot of difference in our defence to this time last season.

Stats? I seem to remember you refusing to acknowledge stats a few years back when they didn't support your view and wanted to wait until the end of the season However, your choice of stats still shows that we are worse in defence than we were last year, so I don't see your point. We are conceding more on average than we were last year, and probably scoring a lot less too. What's the average for attack?

No it isn't. I kept noticing Jammer on Friday night. He was doing his hospital pass thing again and it is both annoying and unnecessary. He needs to focus on driving us forward and then, if the right opportunity arises, pass. When he is very selective and controlled with his passing he is fantastic to have on the park.

It is, I haven't got the stats for this week, but I'll almost guarantee that he is amongst the top 5 on the pitch for metres gained in the match. If he was too busy thinking he was a half back and passing that wouldn't be the case.

Re: Royce Simmons OUT : Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:13 pm  

SaintsFan wrote: Did you read the RL press today? In it, Terry Matterson stated that last season Cas had had a problem with drinking at the club. That has now been sorted out. Whose responsibility is it to sort out those kinds of cultures? Coach, paymaster or both? Coach. If they aren't performing they should be dropped. Besides,I think you'll find he's taken responsibility. He's said that in public, but off the record he blames the players for not thinking about the game, IMO that shows that he's blaming the players. I would think that also except that he has already publically taken responsibility for Friday night's showing. What he appears to be reflecting on is what is different between being away and being at home, as the players are more professional away from home. Any good teacher/coach will reflect upon these things in order to make changes in the future, to their own approach as well as to those they are responsible for. He's partially taken the blame, but he was never going to come out and say 'It's nothing to do with me' was he? I hope he is taking stock and seeing where he is going wrong, and I hope he improves, and proves my worries wrong. Above all else I want Saints to be successful, not to be proved right in my fears.

SaintsFan wrote: Did you read the RL press today? In it, Terry Matterson stated that last season Cas had had a problem with drinking at the club. That has now been sorted out. Whose responsibility is it to sort out those kinds of cultures? Coach, paymaster or both? Coach. If they aren't performing they should be dropped. Besides,I think you'll find he's taken responsibility. He's said that in public, but off the record he blames the players for not thinking about the game, IMO that shows that he's blaming the players. I would think that also except that he has already publically taken responsibility for Friday night's showing. What he appears to be reflecting on is what is different between being away and being at home, as the players are more professional away from home. Any good teacher/coach will reflect upon these things in order to make changes in the future, to their own approach as well as to those they are responsible for. He's partially taken the blame, but he was never going to come out and say 'It's nothing to do with me' was he? I hope he is taking stock and seeing where he is going wrong, and I hope he improves, and proves my worries wrong. Above all else I want Saints to be successful, not to be proved right in my fears.

Re: Royce Simmons OUT : Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:02 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

There is no point dropping Eastmond for anyone else currently available in the squad. Neither Lomax nor Wheeler would do any better than him at the moment, and would pile even more pressure on Gaskells shoulders as neither have a kicking game.

Agreed. But if the relationship between Eastmond and the fans deteriorates much further the cost-benefit equation may tip slightly the other way. No matter the risk posed to the juniors we simply could not afford to play a guy who patently wants out ASAP and the fans know it.

Re: Royce Simmons OUT : Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:18 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

He's said that in public, but off the record he blames the players for not thinking about the game, IMO that shows that he's blaming the players.

What, you have the inside story on the Saints do you?

He's partially taken the blame, but he was never going to come out and say 'It's nothing to do with me' was he?

Don't be so soft. How often do you hear any of the coaches criticise their own coaching on TV and in the press? They all talk in the royal We. But I can't remember when I last heard a coach say 'I've obviously not coached them well enough', like he did.

Re: Royce Simmons OUT : Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:21 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

:lol: What, you have the inside story on the Saints do you?

No, but seeing as the comments were on Andy Wilson's Twitter feed as being said after the press conference, it doesn't take a genius to work out that what he says to the press on record and what he thinks may be two different things...

Re: Royce Simmons must STAY : Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:50 pm  

PHIPPS wrote:

Thought I'd post it before anyone else does.




Seriously, it's not all down to Royce Simmons.

But when you lose against a hapless side like Harlequins... now that means you have problems.

Should he go?

**Edit**

I've changed my mind.

Good result for the club tonight against Leeds.

St Helens defence was pretty good and it looks like they are getting it together

Royce must STAY

Re: Royce Simmons must STAY : Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:16 am  

Well, I must say, the things I asked for in various threads were delivered tonight. Thankyou Royce & the Team.

Long may it continue. WHo's next?