Re: Has the Leeds Era come to an end? : Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:36 pm  

Rogues is right in that final official position is determined how you do in the playoffs, not how you do in the league.
Otherwise when Saints finished top of the league but then got beat by Leeds in the grand final, Saints would be able to say they came first. Thereby making a mockery of the grand final and the playoffs.

Prize money was also historically determined this way. However this year Wigan also received something for finishing first in the league. This hasnt been the case in the past and may explain some of the confusion.

Re: Has the Leeds Era come to an end? : Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:41 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

Rogues is right in that final official position is determined how you do in the playoffs, not how you do in the league.
Otherwise when Saints finished top of the league but then got beat by Leeds in the grand final, Saints would be able to say they came first. Thereby making a mockery of the grand final and the playoffs.

Rogues isn't right because being top of the league is an achievement in itself as recognised by the league leaders shield and the attendant prize money. The Grand Final is the culmination of the play off competition, which is a separate knock out competition and separate from but determined by the league placings at the end of the regular league season. For us that was a sneak into second in the match against Castleford.

Saints did come first in the seasons when we topped the league table at the end of the regular league season but we did not become champions. We became champions only when we won the Grand Final. It has been like that for most of the Superleague era (bar the first two seasons, if memory serves). So one team can be champions and another team league leaders (first).

Re: Has the Leeds Era come to an end? : Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:15 pm  

As I said I would ask the question again, and this time I did get a better answer. Please find below a better explanation of how it works. Clearing up the question once and for all.

Hi Nick



The Super League prize money is determined by where the club in question finishes at the end of the play-off series. So, had Wigan lost the Grand Final (and despite finishing 1st at the end of the ‘regular’ season), their prize money would have been based on coming 2nd.



So, whilst the league table itself doesn’t change, the finishing positions for prize money purposes are (as above) determined by the play-offs.



But Wigan did also receive prize money for finishing top after the regular season and winning the League Leaders’ Shield.



Kind regards,



Feedback



RFL
Red Hall, Red Hall Lane, Leeds LS17 8NB

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Re: Has the Leeds Era come to an end? : Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:51 pm  

Lippy wrote:

As I said I would ask the question again, and this time I did get a better answer. Please find below a better explanation of how it works. Clearing up the question once and for all.

So basically what the RFL said is what we already knew anyway: a team wins the Grand Final and wins the biggest amount of prize money; a team loses the Grand Final and wins the second biggest prize money. And the league leaders, being first in the league, also win prize money. No mention is made of those teams that did not make it to the Grand Final.

What I understood Rogues to be asking was what happened to those teams who finished high enough in the league at the end of the regular season but who did not make it to the Grand Final. The email from the RFL doesn't clear that one up. I don't think it made any difference at all in that they simply didn't make it to the Grand Final but Rogues seems to think that where they reached in the playoffs changes their league position, even though the league finished with Wigan as first (top) getting the prize money for being first (top).

Re: Has the Leeds Era come to an end? : Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:09 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

So basically what the RFL said is what we already knew anyway: a team wins the Grand Final and wins the biggest amount of prize money; a team loses the Grand Final and wins the second biggest prize money. And the league leaders, being first in the league, also win prize money. No mention is made of those teams that did not make it to the Grand Final.

What I understood Rogues to be asking was what happened to those teams who finished high enough in the league at the end of the regular season but who did not make it to the Grand Final. The email from the RFL doesn't clear that one up. I don't think it made any difference at all in that they simply didn't make it to the Grand Final but Rogues seems to think that where they reached in the playoffs changes their league position, even though the league finished with Wigan as first (top) getting the prize money for being first (top).

Yes it does,
It says "The Super League prize money is determined by where the club in question finishes at the end of the play-off series."

It does not just mean first and second.
So the prize money was distributed like this

Wigan
Saints
Leeds
Huddersfield
Warrington
HKR
Hull
Crusaders.

I think this is where I came in.


However I'm not sure of the exact proportions.

Re: Has the Leeds Era come to an end? : Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:23 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Yes it does,
It says "The Super League prize money is determined by where the club in question finishes at the end of the play-off series."

It doesn't. It says this:

So, whilst the league table itself doesn’t change, the finishing positions for prize money purposes are (as above) determined by the play-offs.

The league table doesn't change. That means 1st remains 1st, 2nd remains 2nd, etc. The reference to 'as above' is citing Wigan and Saints, referring directly to the Grand Final. There is no mention of other teams in the playoffs. I didn't even know there WAS prize money for non-Grand Final playoff teams and the information quoted from the RFL does not say that there is. It says that the league table doesn't change and then poses what we all knew about the Grand Final anyway: that the winner gets the biggest prize money regardless of where they were in the league table.

Glad to surrender the point if an email comes from the RFL regarding those teams who made the playoffs but not the Grand Final because to me the email simply affirms that only the grand finalists get prize money.

Re: Has the Leeds Era come to an end? : Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:47 pm  

ALL the money from the play off games is pooled including the final
That money is shared between the clubs.

The amount of money each club gets is determined from their position AFTER the play offs.

It's not rocket science.

Wigan got more than Saints, who got more than Leeds, who got more than Huddersfield, who got more than Warrington, who got more than HKR who got more than Hull who got more than Crusaders.

How do you think it works?

Re: Has the Leeds Era come to an end? : Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:27 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

ALL the money from the play off games is pooled including the final
That money is shared between the clubs.

Not quite. The Grand Finalists are given prize money. The GATE money - from the Grand Final and all the play off matches - is pooled and divided between Superleague teams.

Re: Has the Leeds Era come to an end? : Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:39 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Not quite. The Grand Finalists are given prize money. The GATE money - from the Grand Final and all the play off matches - is pooled and divided between Superleague teams.

Everybody in the play offs gets prize money. The gate money from the play offs is what is used to fund it.

Re: Has the Leeds Era come to an end? : Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:13 pm  

Sam Buca II wrote:

I see where you're coming from, but it has the potential to be a good move for Leeds, he's unproven at club level, (excl. Quins as they have a budget smaller than my salary). Brian McClennan was unproven at club level, as was Maguire. If you expected McDermott to do anything other than be unsuccessful at Quins then you're deluded.

Keith Swiftcorn wrote:

Harlequins under McDermott
2006: 7th
2007: 9th
2008: 9th
2009: 11th
2010: 12th

Harlequins since McDermott departed
2011: 1st

lol