Re: masoe and the rest : Fri May 02, 2014 8:54 am  

St pete wrote:

Doesn't do one on one tackles, he's 2nd and 3rd man every time.

If your happy with Mose being the run of the mill average meter maker than that's fine, I thought we'd signed a tackle breaking, aggressive big hitting prop that we needed.

I'm happy whilst he's outperforming every other prop in the team (my frustrations rightfully so lie elsewhere)

Like I say, the tree ripping, tackle bursting, smiling assassin is a luxury player, who can't play like that whilst the team as a collective do the basics properly. Like supporting the ball carrier. What we have left is still someone making tackles and making metres. Yes he has flaws, but so did every player on that pitch last night.

Think back to the Anderson era. It was standard that virtually every time a forward took the ball up, someone (usually wellens) would come hurtling through on their shoulder in case they got the ball out. Graham took advantage of it, and has since redefined the prop forward role in aus. But it meant that defenders couldn't commit the numbers to the defence in case he passed, and his carries were bigger, and he'd get the quick play the ball. If there were someone in the team committing to that role wellens had in this team, all our forwards would look better for it.

Re: masoe and the rest : Fri May 02, 2014 8:55 am  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

Top metre maker in the forwards ... Again

Made 110 m off 13 carries, lms 95m off 12, walmsley 88m off 13 or Forster 29m off 6. Was also the top tackling prop...

James Greenwood 91 metres and 33 tackles was better.

Re: masoe and the rest : Fri May 02, 2014 9:02 am  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

I'm happy whilst he's outperforming every other prop in the team (my frustrations rightfully so lie elsewhere)

Like I say, the tree ripping, tackle bursting, smiling assassin is a luxury player, who can't play like that whilst the team as a collective do the basics properly. Like supporting the ball carrier. What we have left is still someone making tackles and making metres. Yes he has flaws, but so did every player on that pitch last night.

Think back to the Anderson era. It was standard that virtually every time a forward took the ball up, someone (usually wellens) would come hurtling through on their shoulder in case they got the ball out. Graham took advantage of it, and has since redefined the prop forward role in aus. But it meant that defenders couldn't commit the numbers to the defence in case he passed, and his carries were bigger, and he'd get the quick play the ball. If there were someone in the team committing to that role wellens had in this team, all our forwards would look better for it.

Be interesting in seeing the mins he played compared to big Alex. Let's not kid ourselves here, it was against a club that been thrown together who ain't won a game this year.

Re: masoe and the rest : Fri May 02, 2014 9:03 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

James Greenwood 91 metres and 33 tackles was better.

For us!

If we are going to take our own team apart, then there are others who need to shape up far more.

Re: masoe and the rest : Fri May 02, 2014 9:07 am  

St pete wrote:

Be interesting in seeing the mins he played compared to big Alex. Let's not kid ourselves here, it was against a club that been thrown together who ain't won a game this year.

Totally agree, London isn't a perception changing game, but as I originally said, this isn't the first time he's posted stats like these.

Big Alex did play shortish minutes from my viewing. What was pleasing was, for the first time I can recall, he was dictating our line speed in the first 20 minutes or so. I think being able for him to do that is far more important than any stats he posted last night, so am more than happy to overlook it - after all he usually kills it! No silly errors for the first time in a while too.

Re: masoe and the rest : Fri May 02, 2014 9:49 am  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

Totally agree, London isn't a perception changing game, but as I originally said, this isn't the first time he's posted stats like these.

Big Alex did play shortish minutes from my viewing. What was pleasing was, for the first time I can recall, he was dictating our line speed in the first 20 minutes or so. I think being able for him to do that is far more important than any stats he posted last night, so am more than happy to overlook it - after all he usually kills it! No silly errors for the first time in a while too.

He was brought as a impact prop that brings aggression and big hits in defence.


Does he offer any impact ?

Does he have aggression ?

Does he do big hits?

Does he have a offload game ?

Does he have bust tackles?

Please answer on him in a saints shirt and not what you've seen on YouTube or prem sports.

Re: masoe and the rest : Fri May 02, 2014 10:07 am  

St pete wrote:

He was brought as a impact prop that brings aggression and big hits in defence.

I didn't know there was a position called impact prop. Without wanting to be facetious, he was brought in to play prop. And he's currently playing it better than others. Hence my confusion to why he's being singled out. If he's not living up to your preconceptions, that's not really a problem. Stats don't lie.

St pete wrote:

Does he offer any impact ?

Depends how you measure impact. Does he come on and instantly change the game (for better or worse)? No. Would luke Walsh coming on instantly change a game for better or worse? No. If were granted the luxury of him coming on whilst our (entire) pack is on top, and have the opposition on the back foot, we might see a lot more of him.

St pete wrote:

Does he have aggression ?

Is anyone in our team at the moment? The most aggressive person in LP last night was McManus.

St pete wrote:

Does he do big hits?

If we had a solid defensive line more players would have the confidence to go for shots. But yes he's hit a few - but obviously because he's not clearing out every opposition in a 5 mile radius it's not good enough?

St pete wrote:

Does he have a offload game ?

The one and only time we've actually had someone on his shoulder was vs castleford and we almost scored from it ... If it weren't for Wilkins slippers. Could I recommend reading by previous posts?

St pete wrote:

Does he have bust tackles?

Well, yes. 2 last night.

St pete wrote:

Please answer on him in a saints shirt and not what you've seen on YouTube or prem sports.

I don't have prem sports, and didn't watch any of the montage videos before he came.

Re: masoe and the rest : Fri May 02, 2014 10:13 am  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

I didn't know there was a position called impact prop. Without wanting to be facetious, he was brought in to play prop. And he's currently playing it better than others. Hence my confusion to why he's being singled out. If he's not living up to your preconceptions, that's not really a problem. Stats don't lie.
Depends how you measure impact. Does he come on and instantly change the game (for better or worse)? No. Would luke Walsh coming on instantly change a game for better or worse? No. If were granted the luxury of him coming on whilst our (entire) pack is on top, and have the opposition on the back foot, we might see a lot more of him.
Is anyone in our team at the moment? The most aggressive person in LP last night was McManus.
If we had a solid defensive line more players would have the confidence to go for shots. But yes he's hit a few - but obviously because he's not clearing out every opposition in a 5 mile radius it's not good enough?
The one and only time we've actually had someone on his shoulder was vs castleford and we almost scored from it ... If it weren't for Wilkins slippers. Could I recommend reading by previous posts?
Well, yes. 2 last night.

I don't have prem sports, and didn't watch any of the montage videos before he came.

Obviously he's a top class prop then and a great signing. We should be privileged to have attracted such a leading prop from the NRL. Certainly worth the massive deal we've brought him over on.



























In your opinion, not mine!!!!

Re: masoe and the rest : Fri May 02, 2014 10:18 am  

St pete wrote:

Obviously he's a top class prop then and a great signing. We should be privileged to have attracted such a leading prop from the NRL. Certainly worth the massive deal we've brought him over on.

In your opinion, not mine!!!!

Did I say that? No. What I am saying is all of your complaints about him stem from team wide issues. You can't have an offload game, if there's no support. You can't clear out a player, if there's no defensive stability or line speed. You can't have impact if were losing the ruck. You can't have agression when there's no team desire.

If and when we bring some of those elements into our game, and masoe is still performing as such, I'll be the first to slay the knife in. But, if he was offloading right now, you'd be asking why he's constantly throwing the ball away, when there's nobody there. So I can only judge him in comparison to our other props, and he's posting better stats than them (for different reasons, as I stated about Alex)

Re: masoe and the rest : Fri May 02, 2014 10:18 am  

Quite clearly our best prop last night, again.